Capturing planets, a question of practicality.

[tbontob]

Assume a standard unmodded game with all racial traits "average".

In such a scenario and no events (winning a battle, ships in sector, etc), this is what I understand will happen:

1) A planet with our race will tend to move towards "indifference"
2) A planet with an alien race will tend to move towards "angry" and will eventually "riot".
3) Troops will help to keep the planet with an alien race from becoming angry.
4) The troops can be be "bare bones" with no weapons and will be just as effective as troops armed to the teeth in keeping an alien population on a planet from becoming angry.

Question: Is there a "rule of thumb" which can be used to keep a planet with an alien race from getting angry?

For example. 1 medium troop will keep a medium planet with an alien population in a standard unmodded game with average traits from becoming angry. <=== This is just an example to give an idea of what I am asking for and may not be true at all.

Anybody care to share their experiences?

EDIT: Rearranged a couple of sentances to make this posting easier to read.

[ February 09, 2003, 09:14: Message edited by: tbontob ]

[Fyron]

I think alien races just go to indifferent more quickly, not start being angry and riotous.

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I think alien races just go to indifferent more quickly, not start being angry and riotous.

You are probably right as I have had little experience in this.

So, I am not in any way suggesting that you are wrong, but in my limited experience, alien planets will eventually become angry and later, riot.

Could it be that your experience predicates that maybe happiness was boosted as a trait when the race is created or maybe there are a large number of ships in the sector which are sufficient to stop the alien race from becoming angry? Or some such thing?

I am just trying to reconcile my experience with yours.

EDIT: Or are we in essential agreement, that in a standard unmodded game, an alien planet will tend to move to indifference faster and then eventually become angry and riot?

[ February 09, 2003, 09:37: Message edited by: tbontob ]

[Fyron]

Maybe you are just seeing conquered populations? They start off angrier, especially after a number of planets from their empire have already been taken. Also, a race you are at war with (and engaged in hot war with) that you have on your planets does get angrier. But, just an alien race that you are not fighting does not get angry from just being an alien race.

[tbontob]

Hmmmm.

Here is an example. Actually, it was my first solo game.

I had completely wiped out a race and moved on to other solar systems.

After a few turns, I suddenly noticed that an alien moon had become a member of my empire.

I suspect, they had a colony ship which colonized a moon and since the race had been wiped out, the new alien moon became a member of my empire.

I can't remember if they started happy or indifferent. But they were either angry at the very start, or eventually became angry. Some 10 turns or so later, they riotted.

At the time I had no idea what would stop them from riotting, so they just continued to riot till the game was over (the next 50 turns or so).

[ February 09, 2003, 10:06: Message edited by: tbontob ]

[Slick]

The relevant properties are from happiness.txt as follows:

Our Troops on Planet := -2
Natural Decrease := -50
Natural Decrease for Other Races := 20

This governs anger/happiness. Negative values make your empire/planet happier, positive values make them angrier.

There are lots of other things that affect happiness/anger which can totally overwhelm these effects, but relative to your question with "all other things being equal":

- planets with your native population get happier over time by 50 points/turn.
- planets with alien population (any amount) get angrier by 20 points/turn.
- EACH troop regardless of size and components makes the planet it is on 2 points/turn happier.

Doing the math, 10 troops of any kind will offset the negative effects of alien population exactly to zero. Add another 25 and they will act like your native population.

I find that "one turn's worth" of small troops with only a cockpit are usually enough to offset alien population. Also, I usually build an Urban Pacification Center in every system anyway just to get all planets to jubiliant. This is normally enough to prevent anger/rioting even if there are enemy ships in the system and/or battles in the system, both of which make planets angrier.

Hope this helps.

Slick.

[Fyron]

Or just bring an extra transport or 5 behind the main fleet loaded with police troops.

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Slick:
The relevant properties are from happiness.txt as follows:

Our Troops on Planet := -2
Natural Decrease := -50
Natural Decrease for Other Races := 20

This governs anger/happiness. Negative values make your empire/planet happier, positive values make them angrier.

There are lots of other things that affect happiness/anger which can totally overwhelm these effects, but relative to your question with "all other things being equal":

- planets with your native population get happier over time by 50 points/turn.
- planets with alien population (any amount) get angrier by 20 points/turn.
- EACH troop regardless of size and components makes the planet it is on 2 points/turn happier.

Doing the math, 10 troops of any kind will offset the negative effects of alien population exactly to zero. Add another 25 and they will act like your native population.

I find that "one turn's worth" of small troops with only a cockpit are usually enough to offset alien population. Also, I usually build an Urban Pacification Center in every system anyway just to get all planets to jubiliant. This is normally enough to prevent anger/rioting even if there are enemy ships in the system and/or battles in the system, both of which make planets angrier.

Hope this helps.

Slick.

Thanks Slick.

It does help. But, I think there may be an error when you say,
"Natural Decrease := -50

I believe this only applies to a Neutral race which few people play.

For a peaceful or bloodthirsty race, the Natural Decrease in Happiness.txt is -20

It would appear that if our race is a peaceful race which is happy, exuberant, angry, unhappy or rioting, then our race will move in the direction of indifference and eventually eventually centre on indifference (in the absence of factors such as battles, ships in sector etc.).

This was extensively discussed in:

Happiness...driving me to despair

I am uncertain how the "happiness.txt" affects an alien planet in our empire. But my impression is that there doesn't seem to be a self-centering mechanism to "indifference" as there is with our race. So, in the absence of factors which will affect happiness (such as troops, ships in the sector), the alien planet will just continue getting angrier and angrier and move through the stages of "indifference" to "unhappy" to "angry" to "riot".

Do you guys have the same impression?

Slick, 10 troops per planet does answer my question. Also, from what you say, it would appear that the size of the troop doesn't matter. This is good to know.

And, I hadn't thought of using the planet itself to create the troops to garrison it.

[ February 09, 2003, 14:44: Message edited by: tbontob ]

[tbontob]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I think alien races just go to indifferent more quickly, not start being angry and riotous.

Fyron, I think I know now what your were trying to say.

An alien planet which is happy or jubilant, not only has its own natural increase in in anger of 20, it also has our races natural increase in anger of 20. Combining both, will cause the alien planet to move towards indifference much quicker as you suggest.

Once reachin indifference, our races increase in anger of 20 no longer applies. But the alien race's 20 still does, so it continues on to unhappy, angry and then rioting (in the absence of troops, ships, etc.)

It this what you were trying to say?

[tbontob]

Originally posted by couslee:
Another simple strategy you can apply to help conquered planets not start out rioting, is get the planets first. If you capture a planet that is angry or rioting, there is a reason for that. you inherit the mood of the people. for example
you enter a system, and mop up all the enemy ships, then move on to planet capture. The population has suffered a lot of anger increases because of enemy ships in sector, battles lost, ships lost, ect.. If you take the planets first, then mop up the enemy ships, you get two benefits. One, being they have not had all the battles lost anger increases, AND they get the anger decreases by your battle victories in that same sector. take the planets first, it makes a huge difference in alien happiness levels. And don't forget to leave enough troops behind to offset the "20". If you capture a planet and the first build order on emergency build is 6 troops. leave four of your invaders behind to act as police. I rarely have have to build UPCs doing this. So get the high pop ones first, then the smaller pop planets, then the Ai ships. Use intel to enemy ship supply drain and engine damage to stop them from attacking you while you grab the planets. then go mop-up the derelicts.

Try it, you will be glad you did.

Sounds like good advice. Making the planets angry means we will have to deal with the effects of an angry planet.

Much better, as you suggest, to conduct ourselves so as to avoid making the planets angry and if done right, our actions will contribute to their happiness.