Interstellar Trader 2

[Puke]

http://www.avault.com/news/displayne...1292003-123645

whats this?

give me more!

and what was IT1?

[Phoenix-D]

IT1 is part of the four-game set recently released.

Has it's own forum, too.

Phoenix-D

[geoschmo]

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/pressreleases.htm

[Puke]

after the Last decade of battlecruiser drama, i have a slight distaste for, and prejudice against people named Derek. Game developers in perticular. sorry.

I guess I will have to think of him as Mr. DiBenedetto. While this looks to be a very nice game, I have to take this opportunity to plug X2.

it sounds like this will have random trade / economic fluctuations. not real economy. in X2, whenever Egosoft publishes the thing, there will be real economies. factories will need resources and materials from resource extraction facilities (to put it in se4 terms). if you blow up a resource factory (or build one) the supply to factories changes, effecting the economy. building factories provides goods to outlets, and creates a demand for resources.

wars create demand for items. trade routes passing through enemy teritory (closest source for mineral X that is demanded by factory Y is on the otherside of empire Z's space) will cause empires to come into conflict. you can build factories or resource facilities, or destroy them, or intercept convoys to change the flow of goods and effect the economy.

Or you can make money mercinarying or pirating. or follow the story line. Its Elite, and then some. This looks like it will truely rock. www.egosoft.com

if X2 is all it purports to be, I dont think I will ever play a game with random number supply and demand, again.

[StormcloudCreations]

Hey "Puke",

I totally understand your distaste for game developers named Derek. I was fortunate enough to have one 3-hour Usenet exchange with the "other Derek" and believe me, one encounter was more than enough!

Fortunately for everyone here and for Shrapnel, I like to think I bear little resemblance to the "Battlecruiser" Derek aside from first name. Think of me as the nice Derek.

"it sounds like this will have random trade / economic fluctuations. not real economy."

Well, somewhat yes. The changes themselves will be somewhat random and the percentage a certain planet will go up or down may start out randomly, but will also be based on the way real economies ebb and flow. So the flow and direction of the model itself will be based on real economic trends. Certain planets will ebb or flow more frequently than others if you follow it closely. It makes more "sense" than the previous model did (I worked fairly hard on this part of it), though i'll note there are still occasional random fluctuations, just to keep you on your toes.

In fact, believe it or not, Trader 2 is being used in Greece by an economics teacher to teach his class about economic trends and concepts.

Just clarifying on your observations.

[Puke]

wow, we dont even get direct responses from Aaron, and this forum is dedicated to his game!

Pardon my off the cuff wisecracks on your name, I only wanted to take the opportunity to dig at the 3000AD fiasco.

Thank you for your response on the economic model in IT2. I have been entertained by the demo of IT1, and would be very interested in learning more about the sequel. Will the player be able to purchase fixed assets, or mearly buy and sell commodities? Will the actions of the player effect the economy, or will he only be able to make purchasing decisions in response to in-game events?

And is it possible for you to leak just a couple more details on how your economic modle will work?

traditional games that employ these concepts work something like this:
- sources for goods may be low risk or high risk, affecting the range of random fluctuation.
- sources for goods may 'trend' towards one end of their fluctuation range for perticular goods, representing availability in certain regions

other factors are frequently thrown in, such as how much stock they have, and how often they are re-stocked. random events, translated through some sort of 'news service,' may cause predictable changes in supply and demand, when they occur.

I presume that IT2 will use some or all of these concepts, but I am wondering if it will be possible to oversaturate a market to lower prices, or starve a market to raise prices. do pirate activities effect the flow of goods, and thus effect prices?

[StormcloudCreations]

>wow, we dont even get direct responses from >Aaron, and this forum is dedicated to his game!

A principle I have always used when I was a small private shareware development house is that all my players/customers have direct access to me, to ask questions, share thoughts, give glowing compliments, etc. I believe it's how all software dev. houses should be.

>Pardon my off the cuff wisecracks on your name, >I only wanted to take the opportunity to dig at >the 3000AD fiasco.

Oh I knew that. It's a fiasco I hear that's actually STILL going on, albeit in a small forum/newsgroup. And I also heard that the new Millenium Battlecruiser was a buggy, unfinished flop. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
(Pardon my slight nastiness.)

>And is it possible for you to leak just a >couple more details on how your economic modle >will work?

I should state that the game is not intended to be an extremely serious economic sim, but more of a fun, light strat game with a layer of more realistic economic sim underneath.

The basic setup of IT1 (refined a bit in IT2) is:

At the start of the game, each planet is given an internal market demand "curve" rating, which influences how often or fast a given planet's commodities prices go up or down, and how subject to sudden swings it is. Each of the 200+ items in the game are also given a random "rarity" rating internally as well (5 kinds: Ultra-Rare, Very Rare, Rare, Uncommon, and Common). The item assignments are balanced so that only a few items are given the Ultra-Rare status, they're hard to find on sale, but trade for a very high price.

As you play the game, the system adjusts for changing economies, random events (items can suddenly become very rare, or an accident can occur that raises the market "curve" or a random event that "floods" the market can lower the curve, and certain items can become Ultra-Rare overnight through another random event (you'll be informed if this happens). Over the course of the game, the rarities of items can change as well. The status screen also can have a news event sometimes that will help you with what items are becoming rare, or which planet is offering the lowest (or highest) prices. Your actions don't usually directly impact the prices themselves; this is more of a player adjusting to the market type model.

Should be an entertaining and interesting game for all, hopefully.

[Puke]

Sounds good, and thanks for the response. I understand that this one is designed to be a bit lighter, and targeted at a broader market. I dont know if you are thinking of doing an IT3, but I would personally enjoy a system something like this:

some fixed number of commodity types exist. different planets tend to demand different types or different quantities of commodities, but there is some sort of random weighted fluxuation on demand. the flow (or lack of flow) of commodities to demand markets directly effects the local price.

here is where you can start layering on the detail, depending on how deep you want to get:

distributors sell various commodities, which will need to be purchased and resoled to other distribuors, or directly to planets/markets.

production should not be random. factories should supply distributors at a regular fixed rate. production should be able to be increased by upgrading or building new factories, which carries the risk of oversaturation. factories should have a 'cost to operate' so that if over saturation becomes a problem, and prices drop, those factories are losing money. this would be represented by the closing of factories, (or negative cash flow, if its a player owned factory, forcing the player to decide between operating in the red, or shutting it down.)

factories should be supplied raw materials by farms/mines/whatever that harvests those raw materials. random events or random fluctuation curvesthat effect the availability of these things should effect the operating costs of factories.

even more detail can be added by having factories require components that are built at other factories, which in turn require raw materials. this could progress in a fractile like nature, if desired.

players should be able to purchase or build facilities at any stage of the supply chain, factories, distribution/trade centers (where they can set a terriff on certain goods), or raw material harvestors.

and of course, it should be extensable and modable via text files or spreadsheets , so players can add in their own commodities, components, raw materials, and factories / harvestors that are required to create those commodities.

and while im dreaming, i want a battlecruiser. in retrospect, this reminds me of a great game that I wonder if anyone has played, Trade Empires. This game is a great hallmark for economic sims, and deserves a look.