(Counter-) Intel question.

Q · #1 April 26th, 2002, 12:30 PM

I attack an enemy with several sabotage projects and spend a total of 570000 intel points per turn. My enemy produces a toal of 105000 intel points per turn (AI bonus included), which are divided among twelve counter intel projects.
All my projects are defeated over several turns. Now what I do not understand is that my enemy seems to use only about 130000 intel points to defeat all my projects (if I calculate how many points have been accumulated in his counter-intel projects from turn to turn). The Intel Defense Modifier Percent is unchanged 120, so I would expect it takes 475000 points to defeat my 570000 attacking point and not something around 130000.

Any idea what is the problem???

geoschmo · #2 April 26th, 2002, 04:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
You will have to wear down all of his stored defenses before your first attack will succeed.

So how do you "wear down" his stored defenses? Do the poiunts you spend on attack subtract from his stored points? Or does an attack of yours that complets cancel one defense of his, regardless of poinst stored, or produced.

I'm still very confused about all this. I pretty much just throw points at intel attacks and counter intel and hold my breath. I am usually more supriced when my attacks succed than when they fail.

Geoschmo

Suicide Junkie · #3 April 26th, 2002, 06:36 PM

A successful defense will subtract the cost of the attack from your stored defense points.

I am not sure what happens if the defender has some points, but not quite enough. You will be likely to find out who the attacker is even if you can't stop the attack itself.

geoschmo · #4 April 26th, 2002, 08:06 PM

What if the defender has two projects going and has enough points stored between the two of them to stop the attack, but not enough in either one to stop the attack? Will the attack succeed? If not what happens to the points? Do they coem from both prohects equally or all from one and the rest from the other.

WHat happens to a counter intel project when all the points are depleted? Does it then go away?

If all this is correct it really is more imporant how long your projects have been going then how many points you are producing each turn.

Suicide Junkie · #5 April 26th, 2002, 09:01 PM

quote:
What if the defender has two projects going and has enough points stored between the two of them to stop the attack, but not enough in either one to stop the attack? Will the attack succeed? If not what happens to the points? Do they coem from both prohects equally or all from one and the rest from the other.

I would assume the worst, and then be pleasantly surprised

.
I think depletion happens from left to right, but I haven't seen much intel action in my games.

When a counter-intel project is depleted, it stays where it is. That saves a ton of micromanagement.

quote:
If all this is correct it really is more imporant how long your projects have been going then how many points you are producing each turn.

Well, multiply the two together. Moderate points for a moderate time is better than tons of points for a short while, or a handful of points for decades.

Of course, if you produce more than your opponent(s), then it dosen't matter how long you've been storing up

geoschmo · #6 April 26th, 2002, 09:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
Of course, if you produce more than your opponent(s), then it dosen't matter how long you've been storing up

I always assumed that, but if everything else you are saying is correct then that is not exactly true. A player producing fewer points that stores them up by working on several attack projects over a long period of time can have sucess against a defending empire that produces more points if they dont do a good job of maintaing there counter intel projects so that they don't lose the stored points. Or am I still misunderstanding something?

Sounds like I need to do some testing this weekend.

It never amazes me how I can still be learning stuff about this game after a year and a half.

Geoschmo

rdouglass · #7 April 26th, 2002, 09:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
...Of course, if you produce more than your opponent(s), then it dosen't matter how long you've been storing up

Is that really accurate? Not always IMO.

What about if your opponent is producing less intel points, yet sharing them equally across 12 intel projects each worth 50K points. They all finish on the same turn - that's 600,000 points thrown at you all at the same time. You'd have to have (to be safe) 3 CounterIntell III's almost done to protect against all those.

That's why I generally will have half my queue (6) counterintel projects (of the highest level I can) running at the same time. 6 CI III's can store up to 1,500,000 points (250K each). IIRC the key to counterintell is STORED points, not produced points.

</$.02>

EDIT: Beat me to it Geo....

[ 26 April 2002: Message edited by: rdouglass ]

Q · #8 April 26th, 2002, 09:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by askan:
well somebody shoot me down in flames if i'm wrong but

1. Counter Intel 1 counts as 1 defence per point spent
2. Counter Intel 2 counts as 2 defence per point spent.
3. Counter Intel 3 counts as 3 defence per point spent.

So for 130000 points on Counter Intel 3 you get 390000 defence. If this had been saved up for a few turns before you started your attack then it'll take a few more turns to bring the defence down.

Askan

Yes, that's what I have read somewhere quite a time ago. But it was never confirmed that the higher counter intel projects act as multiplier of your intel points IIRC. Did anybody test this?
It seems intel is still the most mysterious area of SE IV.

rdouglass · #9 April 26th, 2002, 09:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Q:

Yes, that's what I have read somewhere quite a time ago. But it was never confirmed that the higher counter intel projects act as multiplier of your intel points IIRC. Did anybody test this?
It seems intel is still the most mysterious area of SE IV.

No, I'm pretty sure the only advantage is the increased storage capacity. I remember reading recently about CI I being able to prevent Intel II (and III) projects.

CI I 50,000
CI II 100,000
CI III 250,000

Askan Nightbringer · #10 April 27th, 2002, 01:36 AM

well somebody shoot me down in flames if i'm wrong but

1. Counter Intel 1 counts as 1 defence per point spent
2. Counter Intel 2 counts as 2 defence per point spent.
3. Counter Intel 3 counts as 3 defence per point spent.

So for 130000 points on Counter Intel 3 you get 390000 defence. If this had been saved up for a few turns before you started your attack then it'll take a few more turns to bring the defence down.

Askan