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Old April 15th, 2002, 08:50 PM

neofit neofit is offline
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Default Questions/RFCs from a newbie

Hello,

I am very glad I finally found this board. I got used lately to see publishers not willing to put up with a board on their site, so this site was the Last one I was thinking about...

I am a noob to SEIV Gold. I have started two major campaigns, finished none so far. I have a few questions if anyone cares to answer, and I'd appreciate it if anyone could comment on whether my strategies are good for the long term.

In short, I think the game is much too easy on the default settings (from what I have seen so far).

I first started a short test game, to familiarize with the interface, learn how to build, design and fight, for a few dozen turns.

Then I started my first true campaign. All settings to default, Medium galaxy size, playing as human, no goals but world domination.
I defined my strategies as follows:
- Expand until completely surrounded by alien systems.
- Colonize every colonizable planet in my systems after that.
- Every planet that has 100+ minerals receives Mineral Miner facilities, the remaining slots go to Research; add a few Organic and Radiation facilities when needed, scrapping research if necessary.
- Don't build any armed ships until a neighbor gets a little aggressive. I might (didn't happen so far) lose a system (and that frontier system would be the least developed), but this will buy me time to raise a fleet quickly, I just need a good economy.

For the violent part, I thought about doing the following:

- capitalize on range and speed in tactical combat. Modified later on by using fleets of highly specialized ships with only attack weaponry and engines; electronics used to pad the weight to the maximum the design allows:
* Capital-Ship-missiles-only ships for the bulk of the fighting
* Flak ships with point defense only for fighters
* DUC or preferrably anti-matter guns for satellites or the remaining fighters
* Tankers with supply pods only
I found no use so far for shields and armor. Enemy ships are not supposed to reach firing range, and the barrage of missiles does not allow that. Later AI Light Cruisers had 1-2 point-defenses, barely enough to prevent a CS Missile V volley from a specialized cruiser/lightcruiser from crippling it. Specialized flak ships would have ruled here, 2 Light Cruiser flaks obliterate a Light Carrier load of fighters in one turn.

- have mobile formations for the strategic stuff. So far I found no need for mines, stations or weapon platforms since the goal is to conquer and not defend, and the AI does not seem aggressive enough so far.

I guess these are rather straightforward strategies, nothing too smart, but I was surprised at how well they worked. I found out that the AI does not expand nearly enough, does not gather enough resources, does not research enough and cannot fight (i.e. build ships, create strong fleets and fight on the tactical screen). In my first campaign I assimilated the first 4 races with hardly a loss. I got cruisers, 120K research/turn, Research 2, Mining III, Rock and Ice colonization, Shipyards 2, 5-6 in most weapons, 1/5 of the systems. I lost a few ships while figuring out that missiles can't target a fighter, when I found out that the AI does use mines, of when I charge a protected planet to drop troops instead of obliterating it with stand-off missiles, to conserve population. Seeing what is left of the Galaxy and the number of races, I don't think I'll have many problems with them.

I started another campaign, as human, all default but a Small Quadrant. I supposed that with tighter resources I'd have more of a challenge. No way, with my 5 systems, I am strong enough both economically and militarily to crush all 5 races around me, at the same time.
When I have colonized all I can and fully developed in 5 systems, the AI had half-developed 3. When I had 20+, the AI still had 3-4 systems per race.

I am no genius, I usually don't have it that easy on most games. But in SEIV it seems too easy. The AI doesn't expand enough, doesn't seem to focus on the most important economic features, and can't fight.

Of course I like winning, but I'd need a bit of a challenge. What settings can I modify to make the game a bit harder, not too hard of course With my lack of experience with the game, not knowing exactly what a modification in a setting would bring, I am afraid I might choose an unwinnable or not fun combination, and discover it very late into the campaign. Besides there does not seem to be that many setting to change from the default ones. No AI aggressivity setting that I found. All I found to make to make the game harder is add 100.000 starting resources (instead of the default 20.000) to the AI, but seeing how alien races developed so far I suppose this advantage will be negated in a few years.
I don't want to have my butt handed to me on a silver platter, but a bit more of a challenge. An AI that is more aggressive both in expansion and combat, yet still falls to my cunning Currently, the AI races play as if learning the game, as I did on my first test campaign.


Oh, the questions:

1. I didn't notice my ships gaining experience in combat. Then I found an old year 2000 post on this board saying that ships don't gain exp for firing missiles. Is it still in effect? Hey, it's VERY hard to lock onto a target at 12 range then run away

2. What is the difference between Ship experience and Fleet experience? I know that Fleet experience is used when the ship is in a fleet. Are thoses bonuses added? If I train a ship in a fleet, will that ship carry the bonus when I put him in another fleet? For instance: ship A trains for 10 exp in Fleet 1, ship B trains for 5 exp in fleet 2. I disband both fleets, and create fleet 3 with just ships A and B. Will both ships carry their experience over to this new fleet? Will ship A still have 10 exp and ship B 5 exp in their new fleet? What if a 3rd ship with 0 fleet exp joins their fleet?

3. What is the difference between the 'Move' and 'Attack Commands'?
If I have a treaty with the race, both 'move' and 'attack' make my fleet move into the same hex as the other ship. Without a treaty, both commands ask me if I want to move into that enemy hex and fight.

4. Is there a trick to speed up population growth, besides constantly ferrying people between planets that are at/near maximum and the less populated ones? Besides making the population happier through gathering military facilities in the sector and building Urban Pacification Centers? I have found a Climate Control facility and have yet to assess its use and usefulness. From what I read on this board there are also some kind of 'atmosphere changing' facilities along the research tree. Anything else?
What is the max population growth rate one can have? Mine was 20% (which in fact is 2% if you do the math) on an Optimal planet with Jubilant population , can it go higher?
Is it possible to ferry population between two planets with indigenous population from different races?

5. How to subjugate a race? There was one, very weak, not expanding beyond its system. I was 20 times stronger economically and militarily. I made many offers, no go. Killed a few ships, then all of them to show my might, no go. Liberated a planet, no go. They were constantly in a murderous mood, one would think they's accept a protectorate or subjugation from someone as powerful, but no way, they preferred to be fully occupied. Interestingly enough, all occupied planets had their indigenous population as indifferent, the homeworld was even happy on the turn it was 'liberated'! As if I had rid them of a hated regime. Are there any special tricks to make a protectorate or subjugate a race? (I would of course prefer to have 100% of the race systems to myself, but I am not sure the need will not arise one day)

Anyway the games looks great, never before did a 4X game capture my undivided attention for more than a few hours, and I am deep in SEIV for 2 weeks now. I wish there were more treaties though, like a Military-only Alliance, without me having to share my resources/research with my future enemies.
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  #2  
Old April 15th, 2002, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

First off:
I believe the default "AI difficulty" setting is medium.
You will want to set this to High.
When on medium or low, the AI just turns off some of it's minister functions, high uses them all.
This setting does not induce any cheating on the part of the AI

Next, the AI bonus.
This is a multiplier for all the AI resources, and is "cheating" for the AI.
It goes something like:
None: 1x multiplier
Low: 2x
Medium 3x
High 5x
Most players set this to Medium for challenge once they've got the hang of the game.

The questions.
1) Yes. Missiles give no experience bonus to the firing ship. Using Point defense to shoot down missiles, and using direct-fire guns to finish off an ememy ship do get you experience.

2) Fleet experience adds with ship experience.
Fleet experience is completely separate from ship experience.
If you have an Elite "Alpha Squadron" fleet, and a newly formed "Newbie Fleet", and you swap all of the ships, you will end up with Elite ships in a newbie fleet, and newbie ships in an Elite fleet.

3) The move command tells the ship to go to a particular place. The Attack command tells the ship to seek after a target, which is very useful for simultaneous movement games.

4) The organic manipulation race trait provides facilities which can boost growth.
- "Optimal" is by definition the best.
- Climate control facilities are notoriously slow, but you can use more than one at a time on a planet.
- You can ferry people of two different races no problem. Watch out for the atmosphere they breath, though. If either race can't breathe the atmosphere, the whole planet will be domed, and you'll be reduced to 20% of your standard facility and cargo spaces.

5) You found a "neutral" race. You probably need to have over 10-50x its score before it will surrender. Many races have also been modded to never surrender, especially the TDM races.
Most players do not use neutrals in their games, because of the fact that they limit themselves to one system, and are basically pushovers with free technologies to capture.

[ 15 April 2002: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

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  #3  
Old April 15th, 2002, 09:48 PM

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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

Welcome to the forum Neofit!

Before i go to AI diffculty improvements i'll say that there is no mroe challenge than to play real people. For this go to http://seiv.pbw.cc
---------------------------------------------
SE4 never was easy. It does not matter that i complete every other strategy game with no difficulty, this one is realy though sometimes and i like that.
More difficult settings? Lets see.
-To make the AI more difficult, there is an option called "Computer Player Bonus". Low will not make much of a difference but Medium does change the odds. Never try High, from what i hear the AI will crush you early with its shielded, armored and heavily armed light cruisers while you're only building your early frigates.
-Put AI difficulty to High.
-Play with high number of AI enemies.
-Remove Neutral Empires by unchecking the "Generate random computer controlled Neutral Empires"
-Most important, download more races. There is the http://universalshipyards.tripod.com but its going through a big overhaul and not too much of the races are Online (what you see there is barely a quarter from what i hear from John).
For the races part, i reccommend you to download the TDM-ModPack. Its a MOD which will enchance the AI difficulty greatly - many good modders put a lot of time to design a challenging AI.

Ask people here. I dont know much of which AI is challenging (my Taera isnt ) and i cant link you to the TDM because i dont know where to get it, but i am sure that someone else will do it.

For the ships setup.
You obviosly play with no AI bonus.
ECM is a must have with an intilligent AI because good players use both direct-fire and seeker weapons. Just to say if you employ ECM II against a race that does not have sensors, ohwell, you realy wont need armor or shields.
Sensors are the logical counter to the ECM (its the opposite if realy) and they allow you to still hit the ships that emply ECM.
Shields and Armors are both great things.
While i personaly prefer armor (the organic one ) the shields are a great tool when used together with everything else.
It does not matter how good do you play, if the AI is a decent one soon enough your missiles tactics will be countered by greater PDCs and shields and engines. And then you'll get hit.
Personaly to say, i find races that go strongly on seeker weapons an easy prey. Those ships are usualy hardly shielded and armored, and all you need is a single bLast from Ionic Dispersion Cannon to kill them (this cannon will destroy several engines leaving the ship unable to run at full speed).
Now once again, my personal tactics are to use varied direct-fire weapons as main and seeker artillery behind the front lines.
Overall, shield just does not allow damage to damage your ship but stops it at cost of its own energy. Another good thing is that shielded ships can never be captured unless shields run down.
Once shield's energy is depleted is stops functioning. If th ship survives the battle the shields will return in next battle. Overall, once shields are down the ship is ready to be damaged.
Thats when armor comes in play.
Armor is always damaged first. WHen shields are down, all the damage goes to armor. Only once all the armor is gone the ship itself can be damaged.

Now for the questions:
1.Yes this is still in effect. You gain no real experience by pointing the ship computer to the ship and pressing the big red button "fire". Unlike when you maneuver around the enemy peppering it with fire.

2. Ship experience is added to the chance-to-hit and decreases the chance-to-be-hit. Fleet experience should be added, AFAIK.
And no, ships do not carry the fleet expirience. If you disband a fleet you lost all the bonuses.

3. Dunno

4. I know of two ways to speed the population growth. First on the race setup there is a small nice option "reproduction". Add 10 and you will see an effect. Add 20 and your race will GROW _FAST_
Second the Organic tech tree has two facilites that will enchance the reproduction speed as well as a facility that will add a _fixed_ number of population to each planet in the sector. (but it is a lot to research the Last one)

5. Never had tried doing that. I do not even know does the AI accept of propose subjugations/protectorates. Maybe others here do?
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  #4  
Old April 15th, 2002, 10:02 PM

neofit neofit is offline
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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

Hey, that was quick! Thanks!

quote:
Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
[QB]First off:
I believe the default "AI difficulty" setting is medium.
You will want to set this to High.
When on medium or low, the AI just turns off some of it's minister functions, high uses them all.
This setting does not induce any cheating on the part of the AI


Good, I will restart a game right away.

quote:
Next, the AI bonus.
This is a multiplier for all the AI resources, and is "cheating" for the AI.
It goes something like:
None: 1x multiplier
Low: 2x
Medium 3x
High 5x
Most players set this to Medium for challenge once they've got the hang of the game.


Hmmm... I think I'll leave this one for the future

quote:
2) Fleet experience adds with ship experience.
Fleet experience is completely separate from ship experience.
If you have an Elite "Alpha Squadron" fleet, and a newly formed "Newbie Fleet", and you swap all of the ships, you will end up with Elite ships in a newbie fleet, and newbie ships in an Elite fleet.

So, if I got it right:
Ship A got 10 Fleet exp + 5 ship exp. I put it in another fleet, with ships that have no exp at all. In this new fleet, ship A will still have its 5 ship exp bonus, plus its 10 fleet bonus since it fights in a fleet an not alone? So even if I have a single ship I should create a one-ship fleet so it uses its fleet exp in a solo fight?

quote:
5) You found a "neutral" race. You probably need to have over 10-50x its score before it will surrender.

Oh, so it is the score difference that determines the ability to subjugate then?


quote:
Many races have also been modded to never surrender, especially the TDM races.

What is a TDM race?

quote:
Most players do not use neutrals in their games, because of the fact that they limit themselves to one system, and are basically pushovers with free technologies to capture.

How do you capture technology? Through Intelligence? [I have only researched up to level 1 - no spying, didn't find much use besides slightly damaging enemy ships] Through ship capture? Or any other means?

Thank you.

Edit: bad quoting

[ 15 April 2002: Message edited by: neofit ]

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  #5  
Old April 15th, 2002, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

quote:
Ship A got 10 Fleet exp + 5 ship exp. I put it in another fleet, with ships that have no exp at all. In this new fleet, ship A will still have its 5 ship exp bonus, plus its 10 fleet bonus since it fights in a fleet an not alone? So even if I have a single ship I should create a one-ship fleet so it uses its fleet exp in a solo fight?
Example time:
"Alpha Squadron", a fleet, has 10% experience.
"Furious Wombat", a ship, has 5% experience.
"Newbie fleet", a fleet, has 1% experience.

When F.W. is a part of alpha squadron, it fights with a total of +15% to attack and dodge rolls.
This applies even if the ship breaks formation.

F.W. is separated from the squadron and goes off on his own.
It now fights with only a 5% bonus.

F.W. joins a "Newbie Fleet". It now fights with a 6% bonus.

All of the other ships in newbie fleet are destroyed or leave.
F.W. still gets a 6% bonus, even though it is alone.

F.W. leaves, and the fleet is disbanded (no ships remain). The 1% fleet experience is lost forever.


quote:
Oh, so it is the score difference that determines the ability to subjugate then?
Yes. The AI files have someting along the lines of "Only accept surrender if they are X times my score."

What is a TDM race?
TDM is the initials of the three founders of a great AI package.

You can find the TDM modpack on your CD, but there might have been an update since then. Check out the Space Empires:IV AI Races/Ship Sets Thread in shrapnel's upload area.

Technology can be captured by intel ops, or by using boarding parties (ship component), or by trading.
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Old April 15th, 2002, 10:24 PM

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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

quote:
Originally posted by neofit:
What settings can I modify to make the game a bit harder, not too hard of course
If you set the difficulty below High, you are crippling the AI. Set that to High and add some bonus. You may want that at High also. In addition, you may want to use the TDM-ModPack or other mod races. Most of them are quite a bit more challenging than the stock races.

Your strategies seem to be good, but, when the AI starts putting PDCs on its ships, your CSM fleets are goners. You might want to use PPBs (requires Physics II) in the midgame.
quote:
Oh, the questions:

1. I didn't notice my ships gaining experience in combat. Then I found an old year 2000 post on this board saying that ships don't gain exp for firing missiles.

I think that's been fixed. Ships just gain experence slowly.
quote:
2. What is the difference between Ship experience and Fleet experience?
They are separate and additive. If a ship leaves a fleet, it keeps its ship experience but loses its fleet experience. If it joins another fleet, it gains that fleet's experience.
quote:
3. What is the difference between the 'Move' and 'Attack Commands'?
If you are already on the enemy fleet or planet, you can use the Attack Command. Otherwise, they are the same.
quote:
4. Is there a trick to speed up population growth, besides constantly ferrying people between planets that are at/near maximum and the less populated ones? Besides making the population happier through gathering military facilities in the sector and building Urban Pacification Centers? I have found a Climate Control facility and have yet to assess its use and usefulness. From what I read on this board there are also some kind of 'atmosphere changing' facilities along the research tree. Anything else?
What is the max population growth rate one can have? Mine was 20% (which in fact is 2% if you do the math) on an Optimal planet with Jubilant population , can it go higher?
Is it possible to ferry population between two planets with indigenous population from different races?

I think you got most of the tricks. Growth rate can go higher than 20%, but I don't know the maximum. Yes, you want to match the planet's atmosphere with the population.
quote:
5. How to subjugate a race?
It all depends on the relative score and the race settings in the politics file. Turn on the "See scores of all players" option. For most races (and all the neutral races - the ones with the simple flags and limited to one system), you need ten times their score to get them to accept a surrender demand. Score depends on their tech levels, production, ships, and bases. So all you have to do is destroy all their ships and bases and station a ship over (blockade)
each of their planets to drop them to minimum score. If your score is ten times theirs, they will accept a surrender demand - unless, of course, they require 30 or 50 times their score or if they will never surrender Like some of the ModPack races.
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Old April 15th, 2002, 10:26 PM

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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

quote:
Originally posted by Taera:
Welcome to the forum Neofit!

[quote]-Play with high number of AI enemies.

How do you change this? I can't find it anywhere. On my first campaign there were 8 players (as displayed during the AI turn) on a Medium-sized quadrant, the next one there were 13 on a Small-sized one, and I haven't changed any parameters to that effect.
Besides, I thought that the more enemies there are, the less resources each one of them will have.

quote:
-Remove Neutral Empires by unchecking the "Generate random computer controlled Neutral Empires"

Ah, so there are 'regular' empires that will develop normally and hopefully attack, and neutral empires that never do? Thanks.

quote:
For the races part, i reccommend you to download the TDM-ModPack. Its a MOD which will enchance the AI difficulty greatly - many good modders put a lot of time to design a challenging AI.

So that's what a TDM race is then?
Hehe, just found "TDM-ModPack_Gold.zip" on the Gold CD. I was not willing to mess around with Mods until I get to know the game. This Version is 3.00, is it any good or too old?

quote:
It does not matter how good do you play, if the AI is a decent one soon enough your missiles tactics will be countered by greater PDCs and shields and engines. And then you'll get hit.

So maybe training, better missiles, and good sensors will see us through? With the advantage I seem to have in research and resources so far in the game, I think my missiles, electronics and speed will always be above those of the AI. Need to try on Hard Difficulty setting.
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Old April 15th, 2002, 10:37 PM

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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

Also, is there a use for subjugation? If I need to be 10 times as strong, wouldn't it be better to simply capture its planets and get 100% of the resources instead of just 40%.
Maybe in the endgame, when capturing planets becomes very costly against a technologically advanced empire?
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Old April 15th, 2002, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

Along with the "AI difficulty" and "AI bonus" settings, there is "Number of AI Players"

Low Medium and High define a range of numbers.

Lots of AIs can also encourage infighting along with the resource shortages, but too few can leave you alone long enough for you to build up an insurmountable lead.
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Old April 15th, 2002, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: Questions/RFCs from a newbie

Now you know why we play with modded AI. I wish I had my files here with me, but it's probably too early for the NEWBIE to learn to edit AI scripts.

I toughen up the stock AI by requiring them to have more Colony ships. I also expand their limit on research and intelligance points. They will build more of those facilities. (Stellar Manip requires lots of research points). I also have a better AI file for building facilities and another for choosing planet types (mineral, reseach etc..).

Maybe one of the other guys could recommend some MODPACKS with tough AI.


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