Suggestions, observations and queries - French OoB (OBat #006)

[scorpio_rocks]

Whilst researching / playing around at creating a campaign / series of linked scenarios for the French Foreign Legion for the war in Bosnia and beyond, I made a couple of observations about the French OoB.

Suggestions, observations and queries - French OoB (OBat #006)

A/. 20mm Mle 693 - This weapon appears 3 times with identical stats:

#059 20mm Mle 693 - Helos & "gun" APC
#081 20mm Mle 693 - APCs
#231 20mm Mle 693 - AMX-30 tank

Should one or more be a different weapon class? (#060 is the same gun but as a flak piece)

B/. 2e REP were using the McMillan TAC-50 "Big Mac" sniper rifle in Bosnia (Sarajevo Airport) in January 1993.*
Stats of this weapon (#026 in Canadian OoB) are identical to the later French Hecate 2 - therefore suggest:

Unit #368 Para Sniper have start date moved forward to Jan 1993

C/. A VERY minor one: The VAB and its variants used by the French Army is, I understand, only the 4 wheeled version (6 wheeled version is export only)
ALL currently use the same picture of a 6 wheeler


T-20 and 12,7mm versions


D/. AMX-10RCR Unit #012 - Lost amphibious capability when upgraded with additional armour, GALIX, etc.

E/. I believe the VBMR Griffon and Nexter VBMR Leger are now in service soon to be joined by the EBRC Jaguar(2019) and Leclerc Renove (2020) - Do we have stats for them (I am sure DRG & Fastboat Tough already have it covered! )

* Fighting for the French Foreign Legion by Alex Lochrie. Published 2011 by Pen & Sword Military & Hidden Soldier
by Padraig O'Keeffe, Ralph Riegel. Published 2007 by O'Brien Press.

[DRG]

Copied to the list and will investigate when I start OOB work in a couple of months

But re: A/. given that two of them are used exclusively to one model I suspect they were cut and pasted from 59 and used as named until better confirmation of the actual weapon used was discovered then renamed and adjusted as necessary....but then forgotten about...and sometimes duplicates like this appear becasue they are added without checking ( more than just one person worked on this initially ) if they already exist then once established left as is because to 99.9% of players that it's a 20 mm cannon is " good enough"

so why one was added at 231 just for use by the AMX-30 seems as odd to me as it does to you but thinking it was separated just in case that turned out to be a different weapon and so far all I can find about it is one source that say it is indeed a 693....so from what I can see they are duplicated all set up correctly.....but duplicates non the less and since I have plenty of spare weapons in that OOB I'm just going to leave them alone and not risk buggering scenarios but if I do start to run short I will look at this again

[DRG]

Mystery ( sorta )solved

231 was....W A Y back in Dos V2 ( 2002 ) listed as 20mm F1 Cannon ( WC 19 ) but not used by anything and by Win V1 in 2005 it was a 20mm Mle 693 used by AMX-30B's..HOWEVER.. DOS OOBs from that era do not always run so well with the newer versions of MOBHack but back then the only 693 was weapon 81...59 was listed as an "F2"......but that is irrelevant 16 years later.... Thinking since the 20mm on the AMX-30B is a CMG it should be WC 5 which " solves" one issue but 81 was the original 693...59 was renamed so I need to look into that one closest and it looks like the AMX VCI M-56 in unit 571 should be using 81 instead of 59 and that leaves all 59's as helo weapons


OOB work is SUCH fun

[scorpio_rocks]

Originally Posted by DRG

OOB work is SUCH fun

Sorry - just making sure you are kept entertained on those long cold nights...

[Pibwl]

096 VBCI - according to Polish monographic article ("Nowa Technika Wojskowa" 9/2015), first few were delivered to training units only in 5/08, and 41 were delivered by the end of 2008 (now we have entry date 9/06 - I suggest 9/08). Also French Wikipedia says Les 41 premiers VBCI sont livrés en 2008.

It would need a change in formations:
160 MRV Inf Co - Available: 09/106-12/125
161 MRV Inf Pl - Available: 09/106-12/125
162 MRV AT Sec - Available: 09/106-12/125
163 MRV Inf Spt Sc - Available: 09/106-12/125
170 MRV Inf Spt (M) - Available: 09/106-12/125
300 VBCI (4) - Available: 09/106-12/125
301 VBCI (2) - Available: 09/106-12/125
302 VBCI - Available: 09/106-12/125

As for formation 161 MRV Inf Pl, said article gives detailed structure and says, that there are two Eryx teams, not three - but there are also three snipers (at least one could be added)

(A detail is, that mechanized infantry sections in the game have 8 men - in fact it is 7 men, but with 3 more men of platoon HQ it more or less equals)

162 MRV AT Sec - as above: two Eryx, not three (however, this section and 163 seem redundant - see below)

160 MRV Inf Co - in final structure there should be three combat platoons, not four - but a whole support platoon instead of section.

The support platoon consists of 4 VBCI with:
- two 81 mm mortars,
- two Milan ATGM,
- three snipers wih Hecate 12.7mm rifles,
- three squads with Minimi SAW (including two mortar crews) - possibly unit 263 Lt Mech Inf Sec with 5 men would fit.

(detailed:
1st vehicle: two 12,7mm snipers, 1+6 men with Minimi (vehicle commander +6)
2nd vehicle: mortar, 1+6 men with Minimi, two men of platoon HQ
3nd vehicle: mortar, 1+6 men with Minimi, 12.7mm sniper, 1 men of platoon HQ
4th vehicle: 2 Milan sections)

(edit: I realized there are too many units - maybe Milan section should be treated separately?)

If we want to go into details, a company commander has no VBCI, but command version VPC with 12.7 mm MG only.

Unit 615 VBC Eryx - there is no information about SPATGM version, and Eryx is a short-range infantry system. French Wikipedia does't mention it either https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A...d%27infanterie

From 4/2015 there were delivered VBCI with extra armour (32-ton version). According to French Wikipedia, a total of 95 vehicles were converted.

Fin