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February 12th, 2017, 06:02 PM
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Major
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 1,047
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Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
Should NLOS missile systems count against Artillery limit?
I understand that these systems are currently in the SP-ATGM unit class and therefore do NOT count in the artillery percentage to determine overload - but my thought is that because of their indirect fire capability they really should.
(My current "House" rules do count them as artillery)
Thoughts?
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February 12th, 2017, 11:05 PM
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Corporal
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
NLOS weapons are fired more in an ATGM method than an artillery method. It is just like any other ATGM except you do not need line of sight to fire. You do not need aiming stakes, a plotting board, calculation of charges nor do you 'fire for effect' to cover an area.
The M712 Copperhead round might be considered by some to be a guided AT weapon but it is fired using an artillery method,( FO, FDC plotting...etc) and should be considered artillery.
It should stay ATGM and not count for artillery overload.
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February 13th, 2017, 12:12 AM
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Major
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
Really? The British Army have them in The Royal Artillery, in units with the GMLRS and spotted for by a FOO.
In game terms they are not fired direct, but are spotted for by an FO. They are not interrupted by overwatch fire like a "traditional" ATGM and don't have to expose themselves to retaliatory fire (again, like an ATGM) but are more likely to be targeted by artillery. - Sounds much more like Artillery than ATGM to me!
Imagine a situation where your tank force is opposed by a hidden FO and a battery of NLOS Spikes hidden behind terrain - in a couple of turns you could have a smashed formation with no chance to reply...
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February 13th, 2017, 01:26 AM
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General
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Uk
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
Agree they are powerfull but would not count towards arty overload. they are more like a stand off missile attack from a plane.
Sure the counter to them is probably artillery if you dont relocate.
Used them a couple of times & expensive unit , sides that have it dont really need it though its nice to give them a go
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John
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February 13th, 2017, 05:32 AM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hellas->Macedonia->Thessaloniki->City Center->noisy neighbourhood
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
What specific units are you talking about?
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That's it, keep dancing on the minefield!
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February 13th, 2017, 04:21 PM
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Major
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Join Date: Aug 2013
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
All weapons of class #27 "NLOS ATGM"
The Spike NLOS weapons system:
Israel OoB - Weapon #160 - used by #497 Hafiz and #690 Pereh
British OoB - Weapon#165 - used by #691 & #692 Exactor
The AFT-10
China OoB - Weapon #170 - used by #497 ZBD-04
(believe that's all atm)
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February 14th, 2017, 06:37 AM
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
They are not artillery, ok they are in some ways better than artillery, but I am not sure they should be counted as artillery, though I do see the point.
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February 14th, 2017, 01:32 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
When I posted on this about three years ago or so, it was pointed out then NLOS also has direct fire ability as well. And I agree NOT artillery. This gives it that " multi-purpose" capability.
http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SI...LES/6/1026.pdf
Regards,
Pat
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February 14th, 2017, 05:23 PM
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National Security Advisor
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Re: Should NLOS systems count toward Arty overload?
Artillery overload is done by totalling the appropriate unit by unit class, i.e the indirect fire unit classes plus ammo carriers.
NLOS ATGM is a weapon class, not a unit class. There is no specific "NLOS firer" unit class since any unit can have the weapon, just like any unit could have a pistol.
NLOS ATGM are only used by humans. If you are playing the AI, use your own house rules, and if its a PBEM then come to a pre-match agreement on the things with your opponent.
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