Marines in Germany?

[Suhiir]

Marines in Germany?

Date: August 1985
Battle Location: Central Germany
Battle Type: USMC defend vs. Soviet assault


The Soviets have finally done it, invasion Europe!

Unfortunately NATO forces have not delayed them as much as expected in the early stages of the invasion. NATO has mobilized and reinforcements are on their way, but right here, right now NATO needs anything it can get its hands on to delay the Soviet steamrollar. So a US Marine MEU on its way to Norway has been redirected to Germany.

There are many good reasons the USMC was never intended to fight in central Germany. Can you do what's considered impossible and stop the Soviets?

Small US Army and FR German cavalry/recon units mauled in the early fighting and recently reconstituted are the only reinforcements available, they too must stand and fight or mainland Europe could fall before NATO fully deploys.

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As always feedback is encouraged!
I am particularly interested in the apparent coordination between the main Soviet assault and the artillery/rockets/mortars/air. And the overall game length (too long? BTW I recently cut it back to 60 turns, I'd forgotten to change from the default 90).

I'm pretty sure the Marines can stop the Soviets since they're fully dug-in.
But the price ... oh the price ...

[shahadi]

Marines in Germany Battle Notes
Date: August 1985
Battle Location: Central Germany
Battle Type: USMC defend vs. Soviet assault
Design by: Suhiir

Battle Date: 13-17 April 2016

Play Notes

Range and set filter option on M996 Tow for the Tow-2 ATGM to target AFV’s not light vehicles.
And, on the SMAW teams limit firing on tanks at ranges beyond 200m to yield better hit percentage.

Proceed slowly with caution, checking status bar for terrain conditions as roads and bridges are mined especially if you find a Soviet KIA.

Use Helios to bleed off Soviet infantry SAMs and to locate the nasty Tunguskas. Then call in the Navy EA-6B’s.

Design Notes

Review platoon and squad fire sectors. Too many units have MG’s placed behind rifle units. Place MG’s in center of platoons or on flanks with clear view of platoon fire sector to suppress Soviet infantry at greater distances.

Enable SEAD strikes in early turns.

Adjust artillery and rocket fire in front of advancing Soviet tanks and mechanized units as many units lost to friendly artillery and rocket fires. No clear solution save reducing speed of armor and APC'S. Thereby giving more time for artillery and motars to complete fire cycle.

Great placement of FO units behind Soviet positions, nice touch.

This scenario battle type should be Delay/Advance rather than Defend/Assault. In this way the point ratio is more equitable at 1:2 Marine to Soviet rather than the 1:2.5 in current battle type. If battle type set to enable purchase of mines, make purchase and deploy mines. Then save scenario changing battle type.

This scenario is most difficult to design as the AI is troublesome in handling AFV/IFV advance and assault scenarios. One of several possibilities come to mind, have the player disembark the Marine force by helos at player’s discretion, or have the player take the Soviet side so as to control the movement of the mechanized and motor Soviet units.

“What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight - it's the size of the fight in the dog." Dwight D. Eisenhower , President of the United States, 1953-1961 (Republican National Committee Breakfast Jan 31, 1958)

Mission: The 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit with attached units from an Army Cavalry Troop and a German KG Teufel, will delay a Soviet force of undetermined size in and around the town of Ochsendorf, Germany.

Commander’s Intent: We have not fixed the Soviet forces likely course of action, although it is possible the Soviets will attack across our entire front. Therefore, all units in prepared fighting positions must hold ground inflicting heavy damage on the leading Soviet units. The Marine LAI Company will remain mounted, awaiting a weakness in the Soviet attack, then swiftly breach the Soviet lines and recapture objectives. The KG Teufel unit will reinforce from the autobahn north. The Cavalry Troop will reinforce units on the southern flank around the villages of Lerchenfeld and Koeng****ter . Artillery and mortar fires will be held until we fix the head of the Soviet attack. The 155mm battery of Army and Marine FA will be reserved for counter-battery fires. The Navy EA-6B Prowlers are held for SEAD strikes.

We will blunt the Soviet advance, exploit a weakness with the Cav Troop and the Marine LAI Company to inflict heavy damage to the Soviet’s rear, causing destruction of mortars, artillery, and support units.

Turn 12. The German Kg Teufel unit arrived to reinforce units at Neinforf.

Turn 18. USA Cav Troop arrives and is directed to first reinforce and clean up the areas east of Lerchenfeld and Koeng****ter. Then directed to probe for weakness in Soviet lines around the area south of Beienrode.

Turn 50. The Marine LAI began movement to Beienrode via Ochsendorf.

Turn 60. The Marine LAI converged on decimated Soviet armor units on the autobahn east of Ochsendorf, clearing the area of remaining Soviet units. From this turn on the battle was merely a mop of isolated Soviet units, and hunting down the Soviet HQ.

Battle ended with a Marginal Victory.

Battle Report



Battle Result



Thanks suhiir.

[Suhiir]

Actually there are twice as many USMC 50 cals as there should be. But fixing it would require me to repurchase, redeploy, and reset all the Soviet waypoints. Not gonna happen. We'll just say they sent up extras from more rear area positions (artillery, logistics).
As to sectors of fire, the problem is with fireteams vice squads there are a LOT of units so things are a bit crowded, also from past experience I've found it better to keep MG units off the front lines.

The problem is pre-plotted artillery after turn 9 is ignored by the AI, it just uses any available artillery as it wishes. The only thing you can do is determine the turn it arrives as a reinforcement but you have zero control over where the AI uses it.

Actually the scenario type is delay/advance, the description however says assault because that's really what it is.

I think a players controlled Soviet vs AI controlled USMC would be pretty much of a cakewalk as the USMC defenses really don't have much depth. And the AI is totally clueless how to handle the reinforcing Germans, US Cav, and LAI.

I'm actually surprised how well you did vs the Soviet armor given that ATGMs usually get dodged, then one is auto-stopped by VIRSS, then there's about a 50/50 chance to get past the ERA, and finally around a 50/50 chance of dramatically reduced HEAT penetration. In testing I usually run out of ATGMs before I run out of Soviet armor. That's why I say the USMC has no business fighting first rate Soviet armored forces, the USMC relies to heavily on ATGMs.

Thanks much for the feedback!

[Imp]

@Shahadi

This scenario battle type should be Delay/Advance rather than Defend/Assault. In this way the point ratio is more equitable at 1:2 Marine to Soviet rather than the 1:2.5 in current battle type. If battle type set to enable purchase of mines, make purchase and deploy mines. Then save scenario changing battle type.

You keep mentioning this & the ratio of forces is not that relevant compared to knowing if they have had time to fortify positions.
Defend/assault tells you they have had time so there may possibly be mines trenches & other fortifications.
Force ratio not being ideal just means your intelligence stuffed up.
Assaults have had ratios of 10:1 for the attacker but they have also had ratios the wrong way round.
The biggest assault ever was Kursk where the defenders outnumbered the attackers by something like 2:1. Sure it was a disaster the beginning of the end for the German war machine but you cant call it anything else but an assault despite the force ratios being back to front.

[IronDuke99]

Given roughly equal weapons, training and technology very few assaults in the real world will work well at much below a 3 to 1 ratio in favour of the attacker.

As I think is noted in the game manual, in the British Army a Company can be expected to assault a enemy platoon, but an enemy company probably needs a battalion to take it out without overly high friendly casualties.

Although note the first paragraph, if the enemy lacks weapons, training or, especially these days, technology (ie, anything from intelligence, to comms, to artillery or air power, etc) that ratio can change in favour of the attacker.

[Suhiir]

Updated Scenario.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Updated Scenario.

Hey, what's the update? I played the first one, I thought it was pretty cool. So, what did you change or add or delete?

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[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by shahadi

Hey, what's the update? I played the first one, I thought it was pretty cool. So, what did you change or add or delete?

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One of the Soviet flanking attacks was mounted, I dismounted them so they wouldn't get slaughtered in their vehicles.

Also a few tweaks to Soviet reinforcement arrival times and waypoints.