Bug with random races, status ?

PsychoTechFreak · #1 February 6th, 2002, 10:41 PM

I have examined the following bug with SE4 ver 1.49 , TDM modpack 2.00 :

- set player settings to high (5000) racial points
- randomly create empires
- save the newly created empires
- compare characteristics with the according ai_general.txt file

I have seen the following differences:

Aquilaeian (3 times the same result):
SY rate should be 125, but has been 100. 1000 points have been left (enough to set SY rate to 125)

Eee:
Reproduction should be 120, but has been 100. 500 points have been left, ok this could be because the ai_general would need more points than available

Toron:
Hardy Industrialists Trait missing, 1000 points left (would be enough for the missing trait)

Checked the files for typos already. Random creation of races seems to be not stable ?!

Searched the forum befor posting this, have found a similar observation, but since the race points are not exceeded in Toron and Aquilaeian: What's the status on this, any theories ?

See also:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...&f=23&t=004084

Mephisto · #2 February 7th, 2002, 12:23 AM

Thanks for the hint, I think you will like this:

Version 1.52:
3. Fixed - When the AI generates an empire, it was not using all of
the racial points from characteristics. The AI will now
purchase characteristics first, then advanced traits.

Suicide Junkie · #3 February 7th, 2002, 12:44 AM

Note that that does open up another problem:
AI's won't take zero- or negative-cost advanced traits if they're down to zero after buying those characteristics.

A fairly minor limitation, only applying to certain mods.

PsychoTechFreak · #4 February 7th, 2002, 11:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
.... The AI will now
purchase characteristics first, then advanced traits.

Thanks, but I don't think it would help in these cases. The ai_generals do not exceed the points (in case of Aquileaians and Torons, and I just have tested some of the races yet). To change the order of purchasing would not do it, right ?

I use the random function a lot, cause if I mod the racial traits I always have to create new emp files which is done easiest by the random creation. All right, I guess I have to spend some extra time to double check every emp file from now on...

Mephisto · #5 February 7th, 2002, 12:40 PM

The problem was that the AI would pick the advanced traits first and the characteristics second. If you set a characteristic to 50% so you could get an advanced trait that was otherwise to expensive it did not work. This is the case for the Torons. Now the AI will first spend and gain points on the characteristics and then buy the advanced traits with the remaining points.

Egregius · #6 February 7th, 2002, 12:57 PM

So it would be impossible to have a pre-built race with emotionless in a 2k points game?

But it works with .emp files right?

Rollo · #7 February 7th, 2002, 01:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
... To change the order of purchasing would not do it, right ?

I think it would. In case of the Aquilaeian in your example below, move the repair aptitude = 50 above the construction aptitude and try again. (I am recalling this from memory, so please don't quote me on this

).

Rollo

Rollo · #8 February 7th, 2002, 01:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Egregius:
So it would be impossible to have a pre-built race with emotionless in a 2k points game?

But it works with .emp files right?

Yes, previously that was not possible. After Version 1.52 it is possible, if you lower some characteristics to gain 1000 points.

Rollo

PsychoTechFreak · #9 February 7th, 2002, 01:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
The problem was that the AI would pick the advanced traits first and the characteristics second. If you set a characteristic to 50% so you could get an advanced trait that was otherwise to expensive it did not work. This is the case for the Torons. Now the AI will first spend and gain points on the characteristics and then buy the advanced traits with the remaining points.

I see. So, with the aquileaians it seems that the 125 % SY rate has exceeded the points at the "wrong" place of the characteristics buying queue, I will take a closer look at it tonight.

EDIT: @Rollo, that sounds feasible. It would mean the best way to create general files would be to put the negative/point generating things at the beginning.

[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Q · #10 February 7th, 2002, 05:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by [K126]Mephisto:
Thanks for the hint, I think you will like this:

Version 1.52:
3. Fixed - When the AI generates an empire, it was not using all of
the racial points from characteristics. The AI will now
purchase characteristics first, then advanced traits.

But this may still leave racial points unused, because the cheapest advanced traits are 1000 points. So if only 950 points remain, they will be lost.
IMO the ideal would be that the AI first choses all characteristics with less than 100%, which will give him additional racial points. In the second step he chooses the advanced trait but then in the third step he returns to the characteristic (with more than 100%) again till all his points are used.