Movement Class and OOB Corrections

[CharlieFH]

Hello All,

As I'm sure the case is with most of you, I have been playing the Steel Panthers series since the mid 1990's. I don't post on internet forums often, but since this community is important for the survival of the title, I figured it was my civic duty to become involved in the SPMBT forum. Which is all just a long way of saying, long time player - first time poster. On to the subject at hand.

I have been playing 'duff's' excellent Mekong Delta campaign (for those who haven't had the chance to play it I highly recommend it, I found it on this forum. I think it ought to be considered for inclusion in a release, its that good). As the name implies this campaign is based on a core of river patrol boats. The problem that I encountered was that in the newest OOB's river craft, patrol boats, PT boats class units in the USMC OOB were all encoded with movement class 7, the ship movement class according to MOBhack. The problem is that movement class 7 has ships run aground in shallow water, so any time you move a PBR into the shallows it becomes immobilized. I corrected this in my own OOB files by changing all the patrol craft to movement class 0, the default for the unit class.

While changing the patrol craft units to their default movement classes fixed those units and kept them from running aground in rivers, other boats were still getting stuck. Namely, CCB, CCP, and ammo ships. The first two units are FO vehicle class units and the last is an Ammo Carrier class unit, thus the default movement classes would not be appropriate for these vehicles. Therefore, I had to experiment with the 'unknown' movement classes. I found the movement class 5 worked perfectly for river craft and even the boat sound effect was correct as well. So for future reference all boats that are meant to be used in rivers, but whose unit class may not be a river craft, patrol boat, or PT boat should use movement class 5. Also, movement class 7 should only be used for creating large ships, such as destroys or frigates for landing scenarios.

Lastly, how are there still any 'unknown' movement classes? Is this information known somewhere, but MOBhack hasn't been updated to reflect it? Can MOBhack be updated to identify movement class 5 as the correct class for river craft? Has anyone identified any of the other unknown movement classes?

Thanks,

Charlie

[DRG]

Every year when it comes time to release a patch I ask people to submit scenarios or campaigns for consideration and if they don't send them, they don't get included but I will put this one on the list to look into and the issues you documented


Those units have always been MC7,,, NOTHING was changed in the latest OOB's

"Unknown" in this case = un-used. At the time MOBHack was first written they were indeed "unknown" and that has never been updated, They may actually do something ( as you seem to have proved ) but I would have to dig into the code to know why MC5 worked for you but this is akin to finding a new planet so we will be testing it closely but if it works out you get a big attaboy



Edit........ Just ran the first test and this is indeed looking good

Don

[CharlieFH]

Don,

Thanks for the quick reply. Its odd if those boats have always been MC 7, because some of the LCMs and Landing barges were MC 0 and some were MC 7. I assumed that the inconsistency was due to updates or changes. Frankly, MC 7 is rather worthless for all but landing scenarios. Even in those scenarios if you accidentally click on a coastal hex you will loose a unit for the rest of the scenario. This, in effect, makes boats no where near worth their cost, might as well get some more air strikes or artillery.

Charlie

[DRG]

I checked back to the V1 OOB's and the Monitors , PBR's and LCM ASPB etc etc have the same MC then as now

[CharlieFH]

Awesome, thanks for looking into this. I just opened the clean OOBs from V7, and if you look at the USMC OOB, you'll notice that 'LCM Mark 6' on line 175 is MC 7, but the next boat on the unit list, 'LCU 1610' on line 185 is MC 0. Moreover, the very next boat on the unit list is 'LST' on line 190, arguably the only ship in the OOB that should be MC 7, and its coded MC 0! If you keep going down the list the next boat 'LCM Mk 3' on line 194 and its MC 0, whereas 'LCM Mark 6' on line 195 is MC 7. These discrepancies can also be found further down on the unit list with the patrol boats. The'LCM (6) ATC' on line 481-483 are all MC 0, yet all the patrol boats on lines 475-480 are MC 7 as well as those from 484-490. So, where did these inconsistencies develop from?

[DRG]

OK, further testing indicates that you may have stumbled onto something.... or not. Any of those boats given MC0 ( default ) will behave the same way as one given UC5 so in this case what you may have discovered is when the game is given a MC it has no information on it treats it as default. That would be typical safety code

That said, MC6 also works like default but produces the same sound FX as the assault boats and boats given MC6 also follow the river and don't ground out on shoals

[DRG]

Originally Posted by CharlieFH

. So, where did these inconsistencies develop from?

same way all inconsistencies develop........different people doing the same thing different ways OR it's just as simple as taking a blank unit and building a boat and "forgetting" to make it a ship or finding a unit and making a duplicate with different weapons that is already a ship so you leave it that way.

There are over FORTY EIGHT THOUSAND units total in both games built up over 15+ years so the question "where did these inconsistencies develop from" should be obvious

Don

[CharlieFH]

I don't think the code is reverting to default unit class MC when given MC 5. Otherwise when I set my FO ships to MC5, I think they would have made a tracked or wheeled vehicle sound effect. Same goes for the ammo ship. Also, if MC 6 is making a assault boat sound, can we safely assume its for assault boats?

As far as my last post, while it may be 'obvious' that inconsistencies would develop over such a long history as that of Steel Panthers. I was trying to get at whether or not there was any intent or purpose in the MC coding, or if these inconsistencies were recent or long standing. Trust me, for a free game staffed by volunteers, I am not expecting mistake free coding, I was just wondering if anyone had some insight.

[DRG]

NO you cannot "safely assume" anything about the code and how it all interconnects together.

I just tested them as FO vehicles as you suggested and discovered some interesting things that we will be investigating further


Don

[DRG]

OK here is the full answer to you question

This is the full list of Movement classes in the game now

MC0 Default
MC1 Foot
MC2 Wheel
MC3 AT wheel
MC4 Tracked
MC5 Barge
MC6 Boat
MC7 Ship
MC8 Air / Snowmobile


you can compare to what is listed as "Unknown" in MOBHack.

Now I'll explain some of this

MC0 Default ...... this tells the game to use the moveclass code the unitclass was designed for. In the case of rivercraft that would be "Barge" and I will explain that further below

MC 1 was listed as unknown because every infantry class and cavalry class already uses MC0 default and there hasn't been any reason to think that MC1 would have any use in the game but it would if you wanted to make for example, pack animals an ammo carrier....... in that case the correct moveclass would be 1 as that is the default moveclass for pack animals in the code. I plan to experiment with that further

2 Wheel ------ already known
3 AT wheel ------ already known
4 Tracked ------ already known

now we get to
5 Barge
6 Boat

"Barges" can move into shallow water or beaches, unload and move away again and it's "Barge" move class that River craft, patrol boats, Torpedo boats, landing barges. LCG's etc are set up like so ALL the shallow draft boats in the game set up as "ships" will be changed to MC=0 from MC7, in both games, for the next patch

MC6 Boat is used for the little rubber rafts and that's all they are really good for as MC5 works perfectly for making...... as an example, A FO Boat in the FO unitclass

7 Ship ( AMPHIB in code ) is supposed be used for large ships that would be grounded and immobilized in shallow water AND it is used to make amphibians........ if it's a ship it has no land speed and therefore once on land cannot move. Amphibian vehicles have a land and speed value and therefore move on both land a water

MC8 Air / Snowmobile ---- now it gets a bit complicated but I can clear that up

Technically in code MC8 is air but all aircraft are set to MC0 by default and there is no reason we can think of to make say....... a flying ammo carrier so MOBHack understands that for ground based units MC8 will stick less in snow, mud and swamp and if you make an ammo carrier MC8 it will not fly (even before the snowmobile override code was put in) because in the game, flying units are set up in the unitclass code not moveclass so an ammo carrier set up as MC 8 will just handle mud and snow better.... it won't fly. ALL helos and aircraft should be MC=0

That said if you hadn't run some tests and posted them on the forums we'd still be wondering why riverboats were hanging up in shallow water so you get a big attaboy for that

Thanks

Don