Battle of Mokra

[BigDuke66]

Anyone played that scenario(# 270)?

I really wonder about many things here:
-At guns(37mm) scoring hits up to 1km on the first shot.
-Tanks getting pounded from all directions by infantry but not being able to spot them even when unsuppressed.
-The Krad is useless beyond words, shouldn't those units work differently by using Krads as transport and being able to dismount infantry?
The way they now work is like targets on a shooting range.

I know that this was a hard battle for the Germans but as much as it frustrates playing the German it must bore the hell out of playing the Poles with the German being so unable to put up a good fight.

[DRG]

1/ Do you think everyone has committed the scenario number and name of all 434 sceanrios to memory ? Next time include the number.

2/ The 37mm AT guns have no special powers but the CREWS have high experience and high experience is how you get first shot hits

3/ The scenario designer choose to use the "old style" Krad units for those three units. It's his choice and IF you read the scenario description the scenario designer clearly says that if played against the AI the human player should take the Polish side and from your "it must bore the hell out of playing the Poles" comment it's clear that you haven't played it as the designer intended the scenario to be played so that would make it difficult to judge how "boring" it might be to play the way it was designed to be played. Every players experience with the game and there expectations of what makes a good battle are different and it's impossible to make everyone happy all the time especially when it's not played as it was intended to be played

Don

[BigDuke66]

1. Indeed, I changed that now, sorry.

2. Thanks for pointing to that.

3. Sure but the AI will surely not act as careful as I do and I can't imaging that it's any problem playing the Polish side, especially with at-guns that have a higher xp than all other Polish units on the map an usually hit and kill and the first shot.
Just to throw some numbers in, 6x37mm at-guns each with 70 AP rounds against 52 German tanks means 8 shoots for every tank what is more than enough.
All the Polish at-guns have the changed flag set when checking them in the extended scenarios hack utility, not sure if the crew values were the only things changed.
Not sure under which version this scenario was made but maybe the designer pimped them because they acted poor under that version, at least here they have no problems at all.

[BigDuke66]

Can anyone be so kind to upload the original spscn270.dat of this scenario, I was so silly to overwrite the original while modifying it.

[Imp]

Here you go

[BigDuke66]

Thanks.
I found also that none of the German 2cm guns has any HE ammo, again I wonder if that is for a reason or just remnants of a too old scenario made under an older OOB that didn't have HE ammo for them.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by BigDuke66

Thanks.
I found also that none of the German 2cm guns has any HE ammo, again I wonder if that is for a reason or just remnants of a too old scenario made under an older OOB that didn't have HE ammo for them.

270 Battle of Mokra 9/39 was released in 2006 and the German 2cm guns in the 2006 OOB's have both HE , AP (and sabot in the later venison of the weapon ) and that is also the case with the earliest OOB set I have on file which date from 2002 so their lack of HE has nothing to do with "remnants of a too old scenario made under an older OOB" as 2006 is NOT a " too old scenario"


If Ulf shows up again we can ask him why he took out the German HE but seeing as it's designed to be played as the Poles I'm going to guess he was helping out the Polish player and that is his prerogative as the designer

I have played that scenario as the Germans and came up with a draw with more points in my favour and I consider that perfectly acceptable. It's not an easy scenario to win as the Germans but it wasn't designed to be played that way and in the 7 years since it was released you are the ONLY person to complain about it and I have tested it as the German and YES the Polish 37mm AT guns sting and YES the lack of HE hurts the German side and as I have pointed out..... the scenario was designed to be played from the Polish side, the Polish AT gunners have higher than normal experience and as you have pointed out the German 2cm guns do not have HE but NONE of that has anything whatsoever to do with the age of the scenario OR the changes that have been made to the game since then.





Don

[BigDuke66]

As you mentioned the "old style" Krad units I thought there could have be some different loadouts for ammo in past, it was just a guess.
And I guess again when I say that maybe the ammo wasn't the problem but the values for the 2cm guns, maybe they were too effective at that time.
Anyhow seeing how much work goes into each update of the game makes scenarios this old likely to show some "effects", seen that very well on other strategy games.

I guess with complaining you mean being the only person taking time and giving feedback to point out that the scenario is a cakewalk for the Poles and unplayable as Germans, don't get me wrong the designer can setup the scenario as he likes but with some small adjustments the scenario would be interesting & challenging for both sides and that doubles the fun because you get 2 rounds for the price of one, besides being closer to history.

Just to sum it up:
When playing as human with the Poles there is nothing to be afraid off, I didn't see the AI using area fire with anything so only way to bring HE 2cm into a target is by spotting the Polish positions first, that usually means tanks & infantry are deep in the deadly range of the AT-gun, AT-rifle and MG positions and have already taken a good toll on their numbers, if they get that far at all with AI in German command.

[DRG]

If it was "unplayable" as the Germans how did I get a high point draw ?

It is not "unplayable" as the Germans, it is however, a serious challenge.




Don

[BigDuke66]

Either by using secret nazi weapons like this :


Or because