Rate of fire question

[Uncle_Joe]

Hi all,

I've recently delved back into SP-MBT and I'm greatly enjoying the new patch.

I have one question about weapon rate of fire though.

It seems like it doesnt matter if weapons in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th slot have a shot left, they'll never fire it with the last shot for the 1st slot weapon.

For example, if I have a BMP with 6 shots on the primary gun and 6 shots on the co-ax, for each of the first 5 shots, the primary gun will fire and the MG will fire. But on the 6th shot, only the primary will fire, never the MG (which 'loses' it's shot).

The same behavior holds true for just about every weapon I've seen so far - the primary weapon is the only one to fire on the last shot.

I seem to recall it being like this long ago and then that dynamic going away a few patches ago and now it's returning. Of course I could be misremembering as well...

In any case is this new behavior and/or is it intended behavior?

Thanks again for all the work the game. It truly is the best thing going for TBS tactical gaming!

[DRG]

I tested this with German M48's in 1959

I moved into a firing postion and the shots counter showed 1:2:2.

I fired at infantry and the shot counter showed 0:1:1

I fired again, The tank fired it's MG and at the end the shots counter showed 0:0:0

From that test on the first shot there was main gun and MG fire and the second shot only MG fire.

You are going to have to set up a test game and post it because I don't see a problem from the test I ran

Don


EDIT

Just tested this with a BMP.. moved into firing postion with 4:4 showing, fired the last shot and only the AC graphics were shown not the MG........ at this stage IDK if the MG's are being fired but no graphic is displayed or if you are indeed "losing" that last MG shot.


Don

[Uncle_Joe]

EDIT

Just tested this with a BMP.. moved into firing postion with 4:4 showing, fired the last shot and only the AC graphics were shown not the MG........ at this stage IDK if the MG's are being fired but no graphic is displayed or if you are indeed "losing" that last MG shot.

Yeah, it has to be equal numbers of shots on the weapons. I don't believe the shots are being fired because I have never seen an effect from the final weapon (unless the result is somehow being rolled into the primary weapon's combat result too).

[Mobhack]

Steel Panthers has always had an experience roll for firing a co-ax MG in slots 2 and up at infantry beyond about 4 hexes. If it passes the roll, it fires and if not, then not.

That one has always come up from time to time, it is one of those "SP 101" thing.

However, I may well track it down in the spaghetti and kill it off since it causes confusion for little game benefit. (If you don't want the co-ax then you can deselect it in our versions of the game engine).

Andy

[Uncle_Joe]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Steel Panthers has always had an experience roll for firing a co-ax MG in slots 2 and up at infantry beyond about 4 hexes. If it passes the roll, it fires and if not, then not.

That one has always come up from time to time, it is one of those "SP 101" thing.

However, I may well track it down in the spaghetti and kill it off since it causes confusion for little game benefit. (If you don't want the co-ax then you can deselect it in our versions of the game engine).

Andy

No, that mechanic I've seen and understand. This is definitely something different and it's not just co-ax MGs that have this issue. Grab one of the MG units (3 PKS or something similar) and you'll see the same issue.

[Imp]

Not noticed this but since the patch have noticed several instances of the following using different units from different OOBs
Infantry units firing RPGs at armour targets in my turn at least don't fire the last shot but it counts down.
Using standard fire with the F key not selecting a weapon.
All shot counts decrease by 1 & other weapon slots fire but the RPG does not fire
Checked it had HEAT ammo available.
Movement - can say has happened with stationary firer, may have moved last turn though.
Suppression - think this MIGHT be a factor as seem to remember most were lightly suppressed as in 12 or less.
Cant see it being the shot is not good enough to take has happened once the unit has already taken 2 shots at the same target.

If this happens to anyone or me again can you post a save game

[gila]

Originally Posted by Uncle_Joe

Hi all,

I've recently delved back into SP-MBT and I'm greatly enjoying the new patch.

I have one question about weapon rate of fire though.

It seems like it doesnt matter if weapons in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th slot have a shot left, they'll never fire it with the last shot for the 1st slot weapon.

For example, if I have a BMP with 6 shots on the primary gun and 6 shots on the co-ax, for each of the first 5 shots, the primary gun will fire and the MG will fire. But on the 6th shot, only the primary will fire, never the MG (which 'loses' it's shot).

The same behavior holds true for just about every weapon I've seen so far - the primary weapon is the only one to fire on the last shot.

I seem to recall it being like this long ago and then that dynamic going away a few patches ago and now it's returning. Of course I could be misremembering as well...

In any case is this new behavior and/or is it intended behavior?

Thanks again for all the work the game. It truly is the best thing going for TBS tactical gaming!

I'm mostly an WW2 player,but i've noticed this behavior there too.
As in the Stuart for example*(my favourite),it only fires it's main gun at med.or long range until it gets close,say 6 hexs or so,then lets loose with all guns.
Sometimes i just turn off the main gun(to save HE ammo) so the the mg's can have some suppression effect on infrantry because an 37 mm HE is just a pea shooter at long range.
I've gotten used to it, but you would think tankers in a unbutton status, mg's would have a greater range than just 6 hexs

[AMX]

Originally Posted by gila

As in the Stuart for example*(my favourite),it only fires it's main gun at med.or long range until it gets close,say 6 hexs or so,then lets loose with all guns.
Sometimes i just turn off the main gun(to save HE ammo) so the the mg's can have some suppression effect on infrantry because an 37 mm HE is just a pea shooter at long range.
I've gotten used to it, but you would think tankers in a unbutton status, mg's would have a greater range than just 6 hexs

That's intentional, and not the issue Uncle_Joe is talking about.
Check Mobhack's post - there's an experience test involved (although in my experience, the result is so consistent that you can treat it as a fixed cut-off).

The problem here is that, if the secondary weapons have the same number of shots available as the main gun, they will not fire their last shot (even if the range is short enough that they should).

I distinctly remember that this used to be a problem, but was fixed several patches ago - apparently, it's back.

[gila]

Originally Posted by AMX

That's intentional, and not the issue Uncle_Joe is talking about.
Check Mobhack's post - there's an experience test involved (although in my experience, the result is so consistent that you can treat it as a fixed cut-off).

The problem here is that, if the secondary weapons have the same number of shots available as the main gun, they will not fire their last shot (even if the range is short enough that they should).

I distinctly remember that this used to be a problem, but was fixed several patches ago - apparently, it's back.

Well, you certainly seem to like kicking me in the head. so i'll not bother with MBT forum anymore.

[AMX]

Originally Posted by gila

Well, you certainly seem to like kicking me in the head. so i'll not bother with MBT forum anymore.

I don't like doing it, I'm just completely incapable of having a normal conversation without hurting somebody.

If somebody is leaving, it should probably be me.