Question: winter movement

[Mario_Fr]

Is it possible to change the movement cost for winter? Right now it doesn`t really slow down vehicles, my 4WD`s still move 8-10 hexes on clear terrain. But in Russia for example in winter movement almost came to a stand still except for all-tracked vehicles and fighting was for streets and villages.
So having to use streets for movement or to be stucked in the snow fields would add much more depth, I think.
Also trees in general. To my mind, vehicles can cross them quite fast, tanks can move 3-4 hexes in them, that`s as fast as infantry; 4WD can move 4-5 hexes.

[DRG]

WHICH "my 4WD`s still move 8-10 hexes " ???

WHICH Nation ?? Unit ??

When I test a light truck with AWD that normally has a speed of 20 it gets 6 hexes in "clear" snow and THREE in deep snow so you need to be far more specific than you are now as to what nation and what units you see zipping around in the snow



Don

[Mario_Fr]

Right now, movement cost for clear snow is 3 for tracked vehicles and 4WD. So every car that has a speed more of 24 can move 8 hexes, speed of 27 is 9 hexes and so on. (the german SdKfz 222 and Kfz 15 are moving 9 hexes in clear snow for example, which is much too much to my mind).
I just started a winter scenario with the german side in the editor, bought some vehicles (SdKfz 222, Kfz 15, SdKfz 7, 10, SdKfz 251 and 250) and all of them can move at least 6 hexes in clear snow (Opel Blitz can move 4 hexes).
I`m absolutely fine with movement cost for deep snow. I just wanted to know if it`s possible to increase movement cost for clear snow so tracked and 4WD vehicles can move maybe 3-5 hexes there instead of the 6-9 they do right now.

Mario

[Mobhack]

Clear terrain snow is bad enough just now, trying to slog across it with infantry etc at +1 per hex.

Now, if we made it +2 a hex, then winter battles would never get anywhere, especially assaults/attacks.

Just think of clear snow terrain as being a dusting of the stuff an inch or so perhaps - not 4-5 inches of it. That is the snowdrifts type terrain 9with its attendant sticking risks).


Cheers
Andy

[Mario_Fr]

Well, thanks for the answer, I can see that. But maybe it would be quite interesting, that "winter battles would never get anywhere, especially assaults/attacks", except when you use the roads. There would be a lot more draws, or you have to use ski-troops and all-tracked vehicles for assaults.
Two more questions: What do you think about increasing movement cost for trees (summer / winter) for vehicles? Right now it`s 4 for tracked vehicles, so tanks can normally move there 3-4 hexes (infantry can move only 2 hexes) and halftracks 4-5. But to my mind vehicles in any case have to be not faster in trees than infantry.
Second question: Is there a possibility to make an editor for movement cost? As I understood from your reply it`s possible to change it. Or maybe there is an easy way to change it (by hex-editor) so I can do it by myself?

Best regards

Mario

[Imp]

If you want situations like the severe winters that occured at the start of the invasion of Russia or in Finland try making a map with lots of deep snow (snowdrifts). That will slow the vehicles down & likely cause a few breakdowns to.

[Mobhack]

I am already experimenting with a +2 for all vehicles in trees

Andy

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Just think of clear snow terrain as being a dusting of the stuff an inch or so perhaps - not 4-5 inches of it. That is the snowdrifts type terrain 9with its attendant sticking risks).

Perspectives may vary, but to me 4-5 inches of snow sounds still like relatively light coverage - though certainly enough to slow down movement.

Then again, that might have to do something with the fact that there is currently around 20 inches worth of snow outside my house - certainly enough to make movement very difficult on areas that have not been cleared of snow. And on areas that have been cleared of snow, there are likely to be walls of snow on the sides of the road, where the snow has been ploughed - making it more difficult to move from the ploughed road to the areas of fresh snow.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

I am already experimenting with a +2 for all vehicles in trees

Andy

At the moment trees are slower than fields but not as slow as rough. So we have a map feature with 'medium difficulty'...if you like.

Adding +2 to trees would make them similar to rough and they'd mostly be avoided by vehicles. We'd no longer have a common 'medium difficulty' map feature.

I see the current trees as sparse woods. Map makers can add rough to woods to make them vehicle unfriendly.

How about another trees type like 'dense trees'?
Or 'sparse trees', so we still have trees that can be navigated by vehicles.

Would the +2 also count for orchards?

Just some thoughts

Originally Posted by Mario_Fr

Is it possible to change the movement cost for winter? Right now it doesn`t really slow down vehicles, my 4WD`s still move 8-10 hexes on clear terrain. But in Russia for example in winter movement almost came to a stand still except for all-tracked vehicles and fighting was for streets and villages.
So having to use streets for movement or to be stucked in the snow fields would add much more depth, I think.
Also trees in general. To my mind, vehicles can cross them quite fast, tanks can move 3-4 hexes in them, that`s as fast as infantry; 4WD can move 4-5 hexes.

I really like the current winter movement. I find movement really slows down, and roads become important. If movement was any slower battles would stagnate.

I agree with Imp that you should add loads of snow drifts if you want a heavy snow map where movement is even harder.

Don't forget that movement often got easier in many situations where the ground was frozen. The mud of a thaw often caused more problems than snow.

regards,
Cross

[Imp]

Going off topic a bit but as it seems like Andy is dabling with the map & movement at the moment trees are in my view the thing that could do with updating.
Orchards are obviosly sparse trees or large bush type plants so a minor hinderance.fine as they are.

For woods / jungle a possible other ways to do it.
Two types of wood
Normal wood/jungle & dense wood/jungle
Most woods completly surrounded by other woods would be dense the rest normal.
They could offer diffrent levels of cover, move rates & possibly heights
Dense woods should also be breakdown hexes at a higher level than rough, Say tracked could move 2 hexes at minor risk 3 is gambling.

Vehicles now skirt large areas of woods & can still dash across open to the woods edge though they standard woods could also have a low breakdown chance if wish, say at risk if moving over 6 hexes.

This will still let vehicles take advantage of clearings & race across 1 or 2 clear hexes.

Modifying the map generator though would be major work so perhaps for map makers only & I am not sure how the AI would deal with it either.

You could make trails to buy putting a line of standard trees through the dense trees, ideal for ambush possibly

At the moment you can combine rough & impassable terrain with trees to slow or prevent vehicles but this gives infantry high levels of cover & the AI does not handle impassable terrain to well.

Get rid of a paved road type if need a spare button the only diffrence I can see between them is cosmetic, or give it over to brush which would have similar properties to high grass possibly offering slightly better concealment.