Marine River force in Vietnam

[duff]

Ever wanted an excuse to play with all the wonderful boats the USMC had in Vietnam? I did so I built this campaign to do just that. 9 Battles, approx company sized. Not intended to follow a specific historical unit but recreate the type of actions the brown water navy undertook. This is my first campaign so I'll appreciate any feedback I can use to improve it or for future developments.

[Suhiir]

This should be interesting.

[gila]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

This should be interesting.

I'd think so,since USMC is your passion

[Kessu]

I have a soft spot for anything remotely having to do with the navy, so I was eager to sink my teeth into this one.

It's your 1st campaign so I'll go easy on you.

Rule #1 - background research - A main force Viet Cong regiment's AA-assets consisted of 2 X AAMG batteries of 2 HMGs each. On the company level and the battalion level you would not expect to find AA- assets apart from smallarms.

The 1st scenario quickly decended into the realm of science fiction as I counted the seemingly countless number of 12.7s and 14.5s raking my sole gunship. Six Zpu 4s (?) and Lord knows how many DShK 1938s. That kind of firepower simply did not materialise in any given single location. Unless they consentrated the entire VC-AA arsenal in the Republic of Vietnam.

The above applies for the countless rockets. Vietcong used rockets in a similar fashion as the Hajis do in Iraq and the Talis in Afghanistan. One or two rocketlaunchers fire a salvo and then clear out.I think you had a dozen or so RA -units on the map?

Similar logic applies to the number of grunts. US military doctrine follows the age old math of superior force & firepower. You would not find a USMC company attacking a superior force (in terms of men). A company attacks a platoon, a batallion attacks a company and so forth. Run into a superior force = dig in and await reinforcements and fire support.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by gila

I'd think so,since USMC is your passion

Someone has to look after it

[duff]

For someone with only very shallow military history background - where on the internet would I be able to get a realistic idea of VC force structure and especially what would be common deviation from the "norm"?

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by duff

For someone with only very shallow military history background - where on the internet would I be able to get a realistic idea of VC force structure and especially what would be common deviation from the "norm"?

Try these for a start:

Various NVA/VC TO&Es

For another game but good basic info
Same game as above but more info

Links to various VC related websites

[Suhiir]

Well I finally had the time to finish the first scenario in the campaign.

That is probably some of the worst terrain I've ever had to deal with. The "hidden" shallow water hexes, the ones that show up brown rather then blue (and those could easily be interpreted as marsh) were a major pain. All-in-all pretty typical terrain for the Mekong Delta, excellent job on the map!

As mentioned the force ratio and number of AA weapons was a "bit" off.

Given the number of points allotted for purchasing your CORE force I suspect you assumed folks would have apx. a reinforced company.
Thus: 9xRifle Squads, 6xMMG, 3(or 6)xLt AT, 3xLt Mortar, plus whatever else they purchased.
Against this we had 44xSquads/Teams, 9xHv AAMG, 6xZPU-4 AAMG, 3xRR, 2xLt Mortar, 12xRocket Launcher, and 2xBoats (which were surprisingly well armed, smugglers usually don't advertize by arming their boat to the teeth).
I assume the rocket launchers (and the ammo ships) were the objective, so they can be semi-discounted in the force ratio.
Typically the military likes a 3-to-1 (or better 6-to-1) ratio when attacking. In this scenario we had apx. 1-to-3 to 1-to-5.
While it's certainly reasonable that there might be say a company of VC that intel missed in the area, a battalion is a "bit" much.

Typically in the attack a USMC Rifle Company would be supported by a pair of armed helos, no way you could afford them given the number of points allotted. Besides, given the EXTREMELY strong AA present they would have felt like ducks in a shooting gallery.
Also the USMC typically makes extensive use of it's own private air force as flying artillery (I read someplace recently the USMC dropped 70% of the close air support tonnage the USA used during WW II).

All that said it was a very interesting battle, and given that about half the VC squads were a counterattack that was hindered by the terrain as much (or more) as I was the force ratio wasn't as much a factor as it would normally be.

On to battle #2!

[duff]

Thanks Suhir. A couple of assumptions you made are not what I was trying to present: The boats aren't smugglers, they're pirates, The VC are all around and represent a regional force - the game intent is that whatever approach you use you will meet some enemy without the counter attack being too tough - It should feel like you caught them off guard and out of position. Any suggestions on wether/how I could give that effect - change the intro maybe?

Thanks for the links Kessu, I will certainly take that info into account once I've had time to read through.

Also - I understand the AA is OTT and when I'm able I will be redoing all the battles with less (especially less 14mm). I'd like to still have a campaign where choppers fear to tread as much as possible. Would it be a better representation of the way the marines operated to put the pair of gunships into some of the battles as support? The AA issue is a problem for each of the battles and will be addressed (so for those game enough to beta test the later battles you don't need to include that in feedback)

[duff]

Perhaps include in the briefing the words "There is known to be a VC battalion in the area, however you are not required to engage the whole force and our information suggests they are not battle ready and are unlikely to move against you." ?