German 15.2cm K 433(r)

[Griefbringer]

Am I correct in presuming that the 15.2cm K 433(r) (weapon 111 in the German OOB) represents some type of captured Soviet artillery piece used by the Germans?

What puzzles me is that this weapon in the German OOB has a range of 214, while the longest ranging 152 mm artillery pieces in the Soviet OOB have a range of 207 (weapons 004 and 104).

Would this be a case of the German entry representing an artillery piece missing from the Soviet OOB, or might one of the OOBs have a wrong range for the gun?

[Rosollia]

Or the gun in German service might be modified somehow. Germans had a habit of modifying their captured equipment to suite their needs. Often this included rechambering the gun for different ammunition.

[DRG]

I'll put this on the list and see what Hogg has to say about it when I start OOB work. The Germans did capture a lot of them in the early stages then manufactured their own ammo for it BUT....... it does not seem to have been rechambered so it's still the standard ML-20 and the ML-20 has a 207 range.

214 seems off at first glance as that boosts the range 7 kw which is quite significant. I'll look into wpn 110 as well .

Thanks


Don

[Griefbringer]

Actually, there might be a bigger issue out there with the various artillery ranges.

According to the Mobhack manual, every point of weapon range beyond 200 equals to 1000 meters of real world range. However, it seems that a number of artillery pieces have had their ranges calculated on the assumption that a point of range beyond 200 equals to 500 meters of real world range. For example the artillery pieces on the British OOB seem to have their ranges based on the assumption that the range points beyond 200 equal 500 meters each, with eg. 25 pounder having a range of 212.

So if the ranges on the German OOB have been calculated on the 500 meter assumption, and the ones on the Soviet OOB on the 1000 meter assumption, it would explain the 207 versus 214 range discrepancy (if both entries represent the same M-20 gun-howitzer).

[DRG]

If there are errors, like the one first mentioned, it's for reasons OTHER THAN what you theorize. At no time during development were artillery ranges over 200 hexes calculated at a "500 meter assumption". Even if there HAD been a 500 meter rule for ranges over 10,000 m the 25 pounder wouldn't be 212 it would be 205

SOMETIMES ( I know it's hard to be belive....) but "errors" are simply keystroke errors. The 25 pounder in MBT is 202 hexes, 202 hexes = 11,500 - 12,400 metres. A 25 pounders range is somewhere around 12,250 metres ( 13,400 yards ) so 202 fits. The ones in WW2 are 212 which is just one keystoke from 202 then the master weapon is cut and pasted to every commonwealth OOB and you have simple error become something much more

I have noted this down and when I get time to start OOB work I will look into it but I don't have time to haul books out and do research ATM


Don

[Griefbringer]

I'll better leave it to you (and Hogg's books) to check the artillery ranges (once you have time). In any case, the ranges of the off-map artillery assets are not exactly amongst the most critical issues in the game.

But to return back to the original topic of the various captured guns in the German arsenal (and there are tons of those), it would be nice to know what original guns there are behind the cryptic German nominations. Is there some handy reference source published somewhere for this purpose?

[DRG]

Pick one and cut and paste it to Goggle and you'll get your answer. Or open up a copy of Hoggs "German artillery of Worlds War Two" They are all listed at the back of the book