Change In Visibility

Warmonger · #1 April 18th, 2012, 01:37 PM

Save file attached.

Polish unit in hex 47,26 and German unit in hex 46,21 exchanged fire for 3 rounds. Suddenly in round 4 the units weren't visible to each other.

Mobhack · #2 April 18th, 2012, 07:49 PM

Haven't looked at the file but could be either of:

- smoke has built up in the impact hexes, or intervening ones enough to block LOS (not all smoke is visible as smoke puffs, only those hexes with a reasonable lot of it). Such very light smoke tends to disappear in the admin phase, and it is more of a blocker in lower visibility maps.

- Someone has had a "takes cover" result which can break LOS from his enemies, and so he has to be reacquired all over again. A "hits the dirt" reaction tio fire simply breaks the chain of fire, like a pull-back does.

Cheers
Andy

Mobhack · #3 April 19th, 2012, 03:01 AM

Looked at the save game.

As with most end-user saves it is post-event, so it is rather useless for debugging. Debugging wants a save prior to the event and a precise method of obtaining the post event result. In other words - it has to be repeatable.

My prior comments stand, though looking at this map it is probably micro-smoke that has built up in an intervening hex.

And this is backed up by pressing the end turn button - when the unit came under mortar bombardment. Artillery fire is a very common way of providing micro smoke into an area!. The unit post that, could see even less along that sight-line.

Assuming that it had been shelled prior to the save - not mentioned in the original post - that is the probable cause.

Micro smoke is only noticeable by noting unit changed LOS (otherwise maps would be more choc a bloc with smoke puffs) and usually disappears in the next admin phase - enemy or friendly. It is a feature of the game since the original SP series that micro smoke is not reported in any special manner. It typically only affects "edge" hexes of a LOS fan - like your situation, looking down a stream line in woods. It's usually of more importance as map visibility reduces and so LOS penetration into cover is reduced.

Cheers
Andy

DRG · #4 April 19th, 2012, 07:30 AM

Exchanging fire degrades visibility slightly. Normally this wouldn't be noticeable but if a unit was on the edge of visibility to start even a couple of turns of fire could cause this to happen and as Andy noted after the turn ends and the 7.5 arty lands you can see even less down that little stream valley even though smoke density has not built up to the point it shows a smoke graphic on screen.

Not a bug

Don

Warmonger · #5 April 19th, 2012, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Looked at the save game.

As with most end-user saves it is post-event, so it is rather useless for debugging. Debugging wants a save prior to the event and a precise method of obtaining the post event result. In other words - it has to be repeatable.

Unless you could foretell when a problem will occur to get a before save, one would have to do a save prior to every action. I understand problem, I was in software development for a long time.

But thanks for the info about micro smoke. Was the micro smoke code added about v3.5? That's when I first started noticing the phenomenon.

Warmonger · #6 April 19th, 2012, 01:43 PM

BTW - the save was immediately after I noticed the problem, before the End Turn.

Warmonger · #7 April 19th, 2012, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

- Someone has had a "takes cover" result which can break LOS from his enemies, and so he has to be reacquired all over again. A "hits the dirt" reaction tio fire simply breaks the chain of fire, like a pull-back does.

Since you brought up "takes cover" and "hits the dirt" I've noticed some unusual behavior which hopefully you can explain.

On "hits the dirt" I notice sometimes the Hit Chance decreases and sometimes it doesn't. What causes the difference?

On "takes cover" sometimes the unit disappears from view and sometimes it doesn't. I've experienced it both in clear and covered terrain.

Imp · #8 April 19th, 2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warmonger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Looked at the save game.

As with most end-user saves it is post-event, so it is rather useless for debugging. Debugging wants a save prior to the event and a precise method of obtaining the post event result. In other words - it has to be repeatable.

Unless you could foretell when a problem will occur to get a before save, one would have to do a save prior to every action. I understand problem, I was in software development for a long time.

But thanks for the info about micro smoke. Was the micro smoke code added about v3.5? That's when I first started noticing the phenomenon.

The game auto saves to the first slot each turn unless you are playing PBEM in which case you probably have the previous turns saves.

On micro smoke its always been present try reading his answer it stated something along the lines of "been present since the first SP series"
Given the right conditions even small arms fire will adjust visibility due to it if you keep banging away.

On your question about taking cover quessing but seems pretty obvious.
Reasons the to hit chance doesnt change.
The unit failed to find cover or think of it as the firing unit was better than it & managed to maintain a lock on them. Finding cover normaly breaks the lock meaning the target has to be reaquired.

Try thinking of what the games trying to simulate & you will probably answer these questions yourself

gila · #9 April 19th, 2012, 05:39 PM

Alot times when a unit trys to take cover,,it fails which may mean too many other eyes on it besides the firing unit.

Warmonger · #10 April 20th, 2012, 03:15 PM

Here's another instance. In this case the save file is the auto-save (I can be trained).

The situation is this: unit in hex 50,26 fired at unit in hex 57,25, then it received fire from multiple units. At the start of round 2 hex 57,25 wasn't visible.

Also see post below, it may be related.