When can I first use my God for fighting?

JonBrave · #1 November 22nd, 2011, 03:48 PM

(Vanilla SP.) So I decided for once to try fighting with my God from the outset (I tend not to do that).

I take EA Arcoscephale with an awake Titan. Lots of hit points 150-ish, but just 1 protection, 15 defence, approx, I think. She marches off with my starters into independent lands. I think she & they may have won one province, but the next (nothing special, I think, just a number of infantry-types), she gets overwhelmed by the number of attackers, mutiple attack penalty, and all those hit points steadily disappear till death. (I pray for her revival, by the time she's back I can kit her, now she's a lot better at fighting!)

I cannot forge or cast at the outset for any protection etc. --- that would take quite a few turns.

So.... Am I onto a loser here? Is 1-ish protection too low for me to fight indeps with at the outset? Could I have arranged better so that she survived (but I need her to fight, my starting troops alone are not good enough)? Should I give up and stick to sleeping Pretenders so that they have some kit/spell by the time they arrive?

tratorix · #2 November 22nd, 2011, 03:57 PM

Titans can't expand early on by themselves. For Arco I'd recommend either a Wyrm with no magic paths or a Great White Bull. Make sure they have at least a dominion score of 9, which will give them the awe ability, forcing any unit that attacks them to make a morale check. Watch out for cavalry, lances do a lot of damage on that first strike.

Edit: Baal'z thug guide might also be useful to you. While it doesn't necessarily cover awake pretenders, it might help you get a better understanding of crowd control and what can expand early on.

rdonj · #3 November 22nd, 2011, 04:17 PM

1 protection is really pushing things. And if you're expanding with a god along with a full army and they still can't survive combat, they aren't going to work. An expansion pretender needs to have a lot going for them to expand unequipped. Wyrms and dragons are your best bet. And an expansion pretender should have awe/fear and such. If you're trying to go with 1 protection and no awe, it's definitely not going to work.

Squirrelloid · #4 November 22nd, 2011, 05:07 PM

CBM dragons don't need awe. And i managed to make a manticore work without awe. But both of those probably rely on CBM changes to the chasses.

Generally awake expanding SCs need dom 9-10 for awe, decent protection, and fear.

See also Prince of Death, Moloch, Gorgon. This is not meant to be a complete list.

JonBrave · #5 November 22nd, 2011, 06:39 PM

As always, many thanks.

Partly, I do these things for the fun of seeing how it goes. Not necesarilly an "optimal" strategy, but for variety. I sort of think here "if my Pretender wants to go fighting, I have to just try support him as best I can". So I'm trying to make the best of what I have to work with!

Given that, I think one problem was that she got surrounded too much. I thought her two attacks per turn would be good, but really it's outweighed too much by the number of opponents hitting, with that -2 to my defence for each one, right? I think I had her out front of the army, I think I should have arranged that she was between 2 groups so her flanks were occupied; but if I do do that sometimes she gets stuck behind the front line unable to get in cotact with the enemy?

thejeff · #6 November 22nd, 2011, 07:08 PM

The other thing you can do with some of the titans, especially if you've given them Dom 9+ for Awe is to wait a couple turns and forge them basic equipment. Shield, Armor, maybe a weapon if the starting one is lousy.
Probably not worth it with the titaness.

It also usually doesn't work to send them with an army. Either they still get overwhelmed, or they're ok but the army gets slaughtered and they auto-rout.

JonBrave · #7 November 22nd, 2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeff

It also usually doesn't work to send them with an army. Either they still get overwhelmed, or they're ok but the army gets slaughtered and they auto-rout.

That's very interesting to hear. In my (amateur!) way, I think I kind of felt this was happening either way, like you say.

triqui · #8 November 25th, 2011, 09:01 AM

If you want it to be fighting from turn 1, in vanilla, an awake Cyclops with high earth is ussually enough.
Prince of Death, Moloch, Gorgon are good options too, but those need Dom9 for awe (cyclops will also benefit from it, but it's not "mandatory")

Probably the safest route is making them to research for a couple of turns, until they learn some defensive spell (mistform, ironskin, astral shield, etc), then go to hunt indies. Ghost King is decent for this.

A Titan with Mist Form and some armour should take most indies with no problems.

Knai · #9 November 25th, 2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triqui

If you want it to be fighting from turn 1, in vanilla, an awake Cyclops with high earth is ussually enough.
Prince of Death, Moloch, Gorgon are good options too, but those need Dom9 for awe (cyclops will also benefit from it, but it's not "mandatory")

Note that it is absolutely critical that the Cyclops is scripted. Left unscripted, it will proceed to cast flying shards repeatedly, like an idiot, and rack up enough fatigue for serious injury to be a concern.

triqui · #10 November 25th, 2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knai

Quote:

Originally Posted by triqui

If you want it to be fighting from turn 1, in vanilla, an awake Cyclops with high earth is ussually enough.
Prince of Death, Moloch, Gorgon are good options too, but those need Dom9 for awe (cyclops will also benefit from it, but it's not "mandatory")

Note that it is absolutely critical that the Cyclops is scripted. Left unscripted, it will proceed to cast flying shards repeatedly, like an idiot, and rack up enough fatigue for serious injury to be a concern.

That's true for every SC with a magic path, though. A, say, moloch, will cast fire flies until he diew of fatigue.

SC always need to be script to "buff, buff, attack"