AI Archers

[krpeters]

I'm looking for some advice again against the AI. I've discovered that my PD (backed up by some troops on the wings) is very effective at stopping his horders of light infantry. Unfortuantely I haven't figured out an effective way of killing the hordes of short bowmen he has plinking me from behind his infantry ranks. If I use heavier infantry I can withstand it, but that consumes a lot of resources to field a large enough squad capable of avoiding envelopment by his hordes. Lighter infantry takes unacceptable losses before they reach the archers and chase them off.

I like to think that magic should be able to fry his archers, but the evoc spells mostly lack the range and the mages prefer to target closer enemies. Battlefield spells tend to cook my troops as well. Is there another option I'm missing? My latest effort was to have three mages walk in and cast earthquake, but I discovered even when they cast ironskin first the earthquake killed 2 of the three mages and only 50% of the archers, which was a bit frustrating.

I guess what I'm asking for is a more offensive way of attacking the AI, instead of waiting for him to smash himself to bits against my PD.

[Soyweiser]

Well, you could do a lot better with archer decoys, more mages. Only 3 for evocations are a bit to low. You need some more.

AI archer mostly only target the closest.

You could always combine different tactics. Have some heavy (with loads of HP) units for example trolls, and one earthquake caster. So you have a lot of already damaged troops, a lot off dead archers, and troops who can handle the enemy. (Cut of the retreat routes, so if you destroy the army it is totally killed (Ghost Riders can kill most normal unsupported PD)). Also you could soften up the enemy army with some remote attacks spells, while costly the http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Flames_from_the_Sky spell followed up with a unit who can cast earthquake or something else battlefield wide would kill anybody not killed the flames from the sky spell. (Teleport them in to catch the army before it moves).

Also, look at arrow fend. Stops 80% of all arrows. Throw one of the earth army of spells to give prot 20+ and you can stop most arrows. (Against an air nation this is stupid of course). Also, getting a caster to cast the army wide mistform spell (forgot the name). Will prevent earthquake damage.

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Arrow_Fend

The basic idea of killing chaff armies is to get more buffs and mage support. A few heavy troops, blessed with a proper bless, under relief, mass regeneration, mistform, mr+ spells, army of ... spells can stop any kind of unsupported army. They are force multipliers. Read this: http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F125.jpg Higher nr of troops additive, more battlefield wide spells are multiplicative.

and even SC's can be stopped with enough magical support. Spamming paralyze, petrify (works on any SC, the second paralize effect is not resistable by most units), blindness, some of the hold in place spells (see: http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Key_s...ization_Spells for the low level ones). And getting some troops buffed with weapons of sharpness (weapons become AP, so only half the prot counts), to pound the immobilized SC will solve most SC related problems.

Of course there are other ways of killing large mage supported armies, esp if they attack (then you can get off an earthquake or a rain of stone or any other spell before the other side can cast defensive spells). But that is mostly remote attack spells, or tailored armies/sc to kill specific armies.

[Bananadine]

How about the troops you have, plus Arrow Fend and maybe also Mass Protection? Mist may also help.

You could strike the big enemy armies (or just their commanders) from afar with rituals.

A few high-HP commanders with the right equipment may be able to beat those enemy infantry and archers all on their own.

Edit: BEATEN TO THE PUNCH

[NaivePhilosopher]

In addition to the above, Storm and the Staff of Storms are probably worth looking into if you're having a lot of problems with archers.

[krpeters]

I only used three mages because I was hoping to not kill my own mages; I figured casting earthquake six times would kill human mages even with a high protection. I was surprised to see only three kill them. Does protection protect against earthquakes? The manual lists it at 8 AP damage, which suggests it should provide some.

The arrow fend has some potential, I could cast that with an A2 with 2 gems, right? That still places a limit on which nations I could use though. Probably easier to put A4 on my pretender and crank out Staves of Storms, although that only wipes out 50% arrows, hmmm.

On the force "multiplication" idea, the problem I have is that 1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25. It seems there's a lot of spells that will give a small benefit, but you have to pile an outrageous number of them on top of each other before you get a critical mass. It generally seems more effective to just add more troops, especially since envelopment means addition = multiplication. If I outnumber you 2:1 I take 50% casualties of going 1:1, and only 25% if I come at you with 3:1.

[Gandalf Parker]

What are you using your cavalry for? To stand and get shot at?
I like to set them to the flanks (sides) with orders to attack rearmost or attack archers.
I make sure they are slightly back from the front line of infantry so they escape getting targetted.

The frontline is made up of infantry with shields, or if not many shields are available then anything cheap. I put them in multiple squads and spread out so that a single group of archers cant easily target all of my units at once. Having the frontline hold in place can also help instead of charging forward.

Another option if I have archers of my own is to set my archers behind my frontline units with orders to fire on archers

[krpeters]

I haven't been using cavalry much. When an AI horde of 300+ troops turns up, cavalry seem wind up getting tangled up into the infantry battle even if orders are set to attack archers/rear. They seem to work better in smaller battles.

I've had more success with archers set to "fire archers", as long as they're set way behind my regular infantry. Otherwise they charge forward to get into range and wind up in front of my infantry and get eaten

[Doo]

Flying troops set to Hold and Attack, then Attack Archers can work. Got Air and Death magic? Flying boots on an thug with a Horror Helm.

[rdonj]

Protection does protect against earthquake, but as earthquake does piercing damage it's basically 8 damage vs 10 protection to an ironskinned mage. And the fatigue from casting the earthquake makes things even worse. Have you tried gearing your mages though? Defense helps protect against earthquakes (shield parry doesn't count though), so if you give your mages +defense items they'll do a much better job of surviving. And giving them luck wouldn't hurt matters either.

You also underestimate the effectiveness of army buffs but I'm not going to get into that again with you :P Just try to imagine how much more deadly a force of light infantry would be with over 20 protection and 17 damage, armor piercing melee attacks, twice each turn.

Just to illustrate - normally, they do 13 damage. Heavy infantry has 15+ protection, so they are expected to not do damage if they hit. With 17 armor piercing, that 15 protection counts as 7, which means you overkill their protection by 10. Now the vast majority of hits that connect will kill, and you strike twice per turn now as opposed to once. Meanwhile they probably do no more than 16 to your 20+, as opposed to 16 to your... 10ish? There's a huge difference.

[krpeters]

Defense helps against earthquake too? That explains why it seemed like so many enemy units survived it, if only 50% or so are even getting hit each time.

As for army of gold and weapons of sharpness, sure, if you push your research to the top and have some ubermages with your uberarmy, there are some good options. But I'm looking for something useable much earlier with more forces. Arrow Fend at Ench 6 is more practical; unfortunately, the air nations that can cast it easily don't have good shieldless troops to pair it with. Well, MA Mictlan and Moon Warriors might synergize well.