EA Pan: What's wrong with this build?

[Pyrrhic]

I am to join a new MP EA game (EDM) with Pan, and I came up with the following build. I'm kinda new to the game, so I ask you to point out any big mistakes.

Sleeping Great Enchantress, Dom6
T1 S3 H1 G2 L3 M1
Paths: A2 W4 E4 S3 D2 B4, triple low bless. 12 points left, so I guess N1 is the way to go (Carrion Lord at some point for an extra H3 caster -> H4 with Crystal Shield).

Strategy:
- early expansion on the cheap with Dryads and Revelers. If I get rushed, White Centaurs.
- prophetize 1st Pan to save upkeep and send him blood hunting
- when pretender awakes, have her forge a brazen vessel, start making blood stones with a suitable Pan. (Trade for 1st hammer or E gems if none come up on a Luck event.)
- send out pretender for site searching the provinces adjacent to cap, hopefully finding some good indie mages for diversification and further search spells.
- when finished, have pretender make a Skull Staff to summon a revenant for Dark Knowledge. Use resulting D gems for Skull Mentors to boost research.
- early research goals: const-4, thau-2, ench-3 and conj-2, then recruit lots of Pans, beeline for alt-7 and Transformation to remove Pan upkeep (synergy with L3). Pick up combat buffs and Mother Oak on the way. Throw in evo-2 if I get an astral random.

Later on, several ways to go. Const-6 is a must for RoS/RoW (pretender makes Starshine Skullcap, Crystal Coin, RoS and RoW when gems are available). When war is imminent, research evo-4 for Blade Wind. Make a Rune Smasher and get a dedicated Curse of Stones caster. Use A income to equip some Centaur Hieros with Bows of War (fire rear, high precision, D bless!) and the occasional Thunder Bow (assuming low-air indies are found to make them). Get blood-4 for Crossbreeding (L3 comes in again). Pretender is able to cast nice crosspath Blood summons (Ice Devil...). And of course, there will be all those crunchy E gems and boosters, the uses of which I don't think need pointing out...

My main worries about this build are vulnerability to early rushes and that my pretender will be busier than a one-armed juggler, especially if I don't get lucky with indie mages for elemental forging and search spells.

What do you say?

[NooBliss]

EDM without CBM?

[Pyrrhic]

Ayup.

[thejeff]

Just a couple of thoughts, though I'm not an expert with EA Pan:

Blood on the pretender isn't really necessary. It's easy enough to empower a Pan to forge boosters. Nor is the minor blood bless that great. The cross-path blood summons may be worth it, though you could also empower her in blood later on to reach those.

Don't neglect Wolf Shamans when trying to break into Death. In EA, you will find them and, while you may have to buy quite a few to get the D random, 1/10 will have it. And they're roughly as efficient researchers as your dryads, without having to build another fort.
Still, it'll be a long time before you have D gems to spare for Mentors. You've got no starting income and DK is expensive.

[Pyrrhic]

I also just noticed that D2 doesn't give a bless... so maybe ditch B4 and take D2->D4 A2->A3 instead (same cost) for D bless and access to air boosters or Staff of Storms, eventually, with RoW.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Pyrrhic

Sleeping Great Enchantress, Dom6
T1 S3 H1 G2 L3 M1
Paths: A2 W4 E4 S3 D2 B4, triple low bless. 12 points left, so I guess N1 is the way to go (Carrion Lord at some point for an extra H3 caster -> H4 with Crystal Shield).

A few thoughts off the top of my head...

Paths:
A2 gives you very little, some N, more D/S are better choices...
W4 probably is not worth the points, W2 is sufficient...
I personally don't like low S on pretenders, either S5 or none...

Scales:
G is an exponential scale, if you take any, you should take G3...

Strategy:
You seem to be planning to spend a lot of gems that you are going to have trouble generating, although L does help there a bit. However, you don't seem to have a strong plan to leverage the huge N income that your likely to get.

Rushing Alt 7 early just to reduce your upkeep will leave you very vulnerable to someone who rushes good offensive magic.

[SsSam]

Competitive multiplayer is decided by who gets there the fastest with the mostest. While you have to be flexible enough to take advantage of diversity that the map offers you, look to your national strengths and play to those. You've done that with luck and cross breeding. Look for more.

I've found that I would rather have my pretender do one or two things very well than have them spread too thin. I don't see a plan for the paths you've taken or the bless you've constructed. You are "in between" and I don't think that's a good place to be.

If you get a blood economy rolling then empowering a national mage up a level is cheaper than putting it on your pretender. So, that's good advice above. Nightfall also has good advice.

If your main worry is an early rush, how are you planning on funding white centaurs when the rushers come and you are into dryads and revelers and turmoil? Why not turn some of that pretender/blood path into Order for cash to purchase centaurs and minotaurs?

Not having spent a lot of time with Pangea, the dryads with awe look nice, particularly later on with some equipment (and awe and perhaps a suitable bless)

Keeping to the unity of purpose theme....I'm just figuring out that magical diversity for it's own sake is fun, but it is not always a good national goal in a multiplayer game where speed really matters. Back up and read that again. It's taken me too many games to figure that out.

You've got nature, earth and blood...and those wonderful national spells around the carrion woods theme. That's what you can count on. Since you don't have death easily available to your nationals, you want to keep that on your pretender to get into manikins.

I would be looking at what's nationally available, before worrying about rings of wizardry and staffs of storms. EDM gives you Etten's and Treants. Enchanted Forest is available at Conj6....Of course you need a N6 caster to cast it, but then you will have an N5 pan by the time you get to conj6 and I'm guessing Pangea won't have a problem making a thistle mace.


Now, if you're just having fun...pay no heed to the above and have fun.

[LDiCesare]

recruit lots of Pans, beeline for alt-7 and Transformation to remove Pan upkeep (synergy with L3)

I have strong doubts that, with Turmoil 1, you will be able to recruit lots of Pans. Usually, you can't because they are SO expensive. Luck may help but early on you will just be unable to field many of them and will have to use dryads. This also means your early research will be poor, and with a sleeping pretender, you run the risk of being way behind everyone in research pretty fast.

I also think S3 is not worth it. It doesn't bring you much but magic duel is a very real risk. Anyone who can teleport and sees your pretender in a province will know that she has astral (enchantress) and not much (no bless), so I'd definitely teleport a squad for magic duelling should I see such a site searcher if I had some astral mages and was fighting you. S4 is a bare minimum, S5 or better is better.

[Soyweiser]

Also, if you want A on your pretender for diversity, remember that the faery queens have air and nature, and only require nature. Sure it will be hard to get into a4 then still. But without any other solid reasons get no air on the pretender or a4. (So it can make boosters).

[Psycho]

Like others said:
1) With those scales, you won't have the money for Pans, you need more order
2) Lose some of the paths you don't need - B can be empowered, A from fairy queens, E you have on Pans
3) Since you remove these paths, rainbow is not a good choice, better use a titan then
4) Dom 6 is too low
5) Forget white centaurs, you'll need a much better bless to justify using them, use centaur warriors instead
6) It's unlikely you will have death gems for mentors, since you have none on your nationals

Pans can be nice thugs, so initial research in constr, conj, alt and ench. And you can equip them with just nature gems. Example: snake bladder stick, vine shield, boots of messenger; cast summon earthpower, ironskin, personal regen, poison resistance. Alt7 yes, but more for mass protection and marble warriors. Also, iron pigs are really nice, just watch out for their low MR. Crossbreeding is not that good, but dark vines are, plus they make fantastic bodyguards.

If you ask me, I'd take the vamp queen and slap on S5. Immortal magic dueler, can be a decent SC despite low hp and starts the vampire/vampire lord factory for you. Something like S5D2B2 Dom8 Order 2, Sloth 3, Heat 1, Growth 2, Luck 0, Magic 1. I would also take Misfortune 2 and give her some fire or water paths, but that's me (I know some people dislike misfortune).