V5.0 Russia OBA question.

[KV7]

Hi, been playing this game since 1999, just signed up on these forums.

A few things on the T-54/55

unit 006 T-54-1, uses icon 193 which is some light tank, much too small. Also weapon slot 4 is a fixed fender mounted mg, it really should have max range 5 hexes, acc 0 or similar.

unit 012, T-55A, These tanks got the TKD-1 'newa' laser rangefinder so rangefinder 22 is okay, but why is the FC 10 as opposed to FC 7 on unit 11 and 12 and 5 on unit 9. Is this meant to be the Volna FCS. I don't think so as I am pretty sure Volna is the FC 20 on unit 14 the T-55 AM. If so, what are the upgrades that are modeled ?

Does anyone know when Volna equipped tanks were put into service ? It is very confusing as 1970 and 74 modernization of T-55A are referred to as T-55 AM, being a modernization of T-55 A (SP units 11-13), but that designation is also used for the much later Ob'yekt 155AM which is unit 14 in SP v5.0. Sources attribute both vehicles to being the first to have Volna, being introduced in either 74 or 84, or some time in between. V 5.0 has it in 84, I think, but that may be just be becuase 84 is also the entry date for the Bastion ATGM and there is no non bastion equipped Volna tanks in this OOB (unless it is unit 13 with FC 10, but I don;t think so). Any help would be most appreciated.

Also, I am wondering about the night vision on these tanks, my understanding is that active IR equipment was only really introduced in 59, (TPN-1-22-11 IR day-night sight, with Luna illuminator' so in that case units 06 and 07 should have Vision<20. T-55A had TVN-1 drivers IR periscope ~400 meter range but I don't think it had a night sight. T-54-1 had no NV at all, at least that is what I think, so unit 06 should have vision 0 ?

[DRG]

Originally Posted by KV7

A few things on the T-54/55

unit 006 T-54-1, uses icon 193 which is some light tank, much too small. Also weapon slot 4 is a fixed fender mounted mg, it really should have max range 5 hexes, acc 0 or similar.

Icon 193 is the standard t-54/55 hull with the early t-54 turret so if it looks like "some light tank" perhaps you've been tinkering with the Icon files because in the master copy of the game it's exactly the same size as any other t-55/54.

All the rest I'll put on the list to investigate and if I find anything to support or anyone else provides info it I will make changes to the OOB's but you comment that......

units 06 and 07 should have Vision<20

Since unit 006 DOES have Vision<20 why say it should have Vision <20 ?

Don

[KV7]

Sorry don, should have said:

'units 7 and 8 should have vision <20'

Except that unit 8 is 57 entry, if the Luna set gets added in 59, then no point making a new unit or downgrading the existing one just for the two years that the T-55B had no active IR NV set !

Also, as per unit 6, the BMG on 7, 8, 9 are fixed units as opposed to ball mounts like the radio operators MMG on the T-34 series, the driver fires it with a trigger on the steering lever, and cannot aim it at all. Apparently the gun is fixed to fire at the ground about 250 meters ahead, so just good for spraying fire at close ranges to ward off a frontal assault, i.e mostly useless.

Also, unit 68 and unit 8 are basically the same, except for the ammo load and class, except that unit 68 has 4 top armor instead of 3, and weight 27 instead of 30.

On another note, what is vision 10 meant to represent, I assume it is basic passive vision intensification ? I don't actually have any evidence that any Russian tanks had anything more than telescopic sights before 55, and then it was active IR. So in this instance, <20 equals zero.

I have no idea what is going on with the icon, for some reason my icon 193 and 192 are a weird blocky very short hulled tank with wide hull and tracks and a 75-85 mm gun. I haven't edited them, as I don't even know how, unfortunately. Maybe it is corrupted somehow.

also, please don't take any of this as whingeing, I love the game and all the modding work done. Raising these queries is as much about getting my own facts straight about some of these things as anything else, and thought some people here might be experts and able to help.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by KV7

I have no idea what is going on with the icon, for some reason my icon 193 and 192 are a weird blocky very short hulled tank with wide hull and tracks and a 75-85 mm gun. I haven't edited them, as I don't even know how, unfortunately. Maybe it is corrupted somehow.

My #1 Guess is you have not installed all the patches in order they were released because Icon 192 and 193 ( and 49 other Icons ! )were new Icons put in replacing very old unused Icons when winspmbt v4.5 was released ( previous to that Icon 192 was a "Panhard AML (brown)" and 193 was a "Panhard ERC90 (brown)" so what you have is an Icon set that in some cases will be pre V4.5 and a OOB set from V5.

In short, a mess.

What you MUST do is go back and reinstall all the game patches before commenting further on anything related to the game or the Icons. For certain you do not have the V4.5 patch installed and God only knows what else was missed so go back and start from the beginning and re-patch your game then, double check what you are writing so I don't get things like "units 6 and 7 " when it's really "Units 7 and 8 ". When people start doing that I loose interest in reading what they have to say very quickly


Don

[KV7]

Thanks, that was it the icons seem fixed now.
Sorry about being imprecise, I will triple check everything in the future!

Back to the other points, i will try and be a precise as possible!

Volna is definitely FC 20, as the slightly superior Czech Klavidko system is 25 (unit 10 obat37), as is the slightly superior system on US M60A3 (unit 09, obat12). It appears Volna did actually came in 84 (unit 14) so the OOB is correct on this.

Unit 006, weapon slot 4 no 81 is definitely 2 fixed fender mounted units. Units 7, 8 and 9 I am 99.9% sure are fully fixed units for slot 4.

According to what is actually documented;

unit 08 technically should be vision 10, unless its start is delayed till 59. As before this is prob no issue, its just 2 years.

unit 07 probably should be vision 10 not 20 it is short range active IR for the driver only, the day night scope does not get retrofitted till 59.

unit 06 probably should be vision 0, not 10, no evidence it had a night sight of any sort.

Thanks again !

[KV7]

Here is a pic of the bow mounted 7.62 SGMT on units 7,8,9, it is the little hole in the glacis, you can plug it up with a rubber bung to wade, was covered over when applique was added. Obviously cannot be aimed except steering the tank and advancing/retreating to change the point the bullets strike the ground.

http://data3.primeportal.net/tanks/y...155_of_195.jpg

[DRG]

This issue has been brought up previously and is on the list to investigate but we are reluctant to waste one of the few remaining weapons slots in that OOB on a special limited range BMG that is used by only three minor units for only a fraction of the time period the game spans.

Don