Sgmt Bmg

[Jaakko]

Weapon 61 in the Soviet OOB

Although I know very little about this bow machine-gun installed in the T-54 (and early T-55) and Type-59/69, I sometimes wonder how realistic are the stats given to it in the game. There are some facts which, if correct, I think should make it significantly less effective than the usual old ball-mounted BMGs fired by the radio-operator (as the one in T-34-85 for example). Firstly, it's fired by the driver, who is normally pretty much occupied with the task of driving the tank. Secondly, the mount doesn't seem very flexible - if movable at all? Thirdly, how is the driver supposed to aim it - or does it have a sight at all?

This brings me to my primary suspicion, is this BMG even intended to hit anything or is it supposed to just keep the enemy's heads down? If so, I would suggest reducing its range by half at least and decreasing its accuracy catastrophically.

EDIT: Found this discussion elsewhere:

http://208.84.116.223/forums/index.php?showtopic=26767

Quotations:

"T-54 model 1946 did not have bow MG - it had two MGs (SG-43) mounted on the boxes on the fenders."

Weapon 81 in the game. Same problem as with thread title weapon.

"Fixed installation, fired by driver with trigger on IIRC right driving stick."

"It is not for hitting, it was purely for suppression. Just like early versions of Stuart that had two fixed .30cal MGs in fenders."

So, how to edit the stats or should these terror-guns just be deleted?

[Mobhack]

Personally I would treat them exactly as for APC infantry firing ports - i.e. of no practical use whatsoever, and so ignore (delete) them.

However, if we did then there would likely be howls from the end users about the T5X had 2 bow machine guns and where did they go etc.

So perhaps adjusting them to range 1 or 2, accuracy 0 and HE kill 1 instead may be an option for the next year's release.

Andy

[Jaakko]

Thanks for the attention.

Originally Posted by Mobhack

So perhaps adjusting them to range 1 or 2, accuracy 0 and HE kill 1 instead may be an option for the next year's release.

That's about what I ended up doing. I reduced the range to 2, accuracy to 0 and HE kill to 1. Same thing for the initial T-54's double SG-43, except giving it a HE kill of 2. I feel it would also make sense to reduce their ammo load, as a tank running out of 7.62x53 cartridges would probably prefer to fire the remaining ammo through the more lethal and less ammo wasting coax.

[Mobhack]

I think the MG were probably looked on as a spare piece of kit in case the co-ax went tits-up.

Plus, they were AFAIR covered with a rubber plug shoved in the armour, and when fired then the deep fording and NBC seals were broken as well. Perhaps why they went for the "mudguard box" models later (and you would not want to jump out and fetch any spare ammo from those in a fire-fight!).

I think if I were a battalion commander with such tanks, then those MG would (like the little 2 inch mortars and browning 9mm pistols in my Bn) simply be left in the armoury and only wheeled out for any "regulation" firings which had to be ticked off the annual or recruit's training schedule.

Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

Better late, than never... Just my bit:
SGM in front plate was indeed fixed, in such a way that bullets struck ground (on flat surface) 250 meters in front of the tank. As such it was really just a terror weapon to discourage close ambushes. As for its practical use, I have yet to receive an answer, but it would obviously be very limited.
Re. two MGs on fenders, that was actually limited to few early series of T-54. The MG in front plate is a later solution and due to NBC issues the hole was generally plugged and MG unused on T-55A etc. and welded shut on uparmored T-5x.