Couple questions about demons and magic paths

[Baneslave]

Okay, my latest mod project (curse you, my easily distracted mind!) has led me to ponder these questions:

1. How bad weakness being demon is? This is assuming that pretty much every unit and commander has mr over 12. Also, all commanders can lead same number of demons as normal units.

2. How strong is combo of blood and death as national magic paths. With recruitables death goes up to 2 and blood up to 3, and summons can bring blood to 5. Blood can be used to summon efficient blood searcher.

[Gregstrom]

The big weaknesses of demons:
1: Banish. MR 12 takes some of the sting off this, but by no means all.
2: Various weapons have x3 damage against undead/demons. Say 'ouch'.
3: Cleansing Water and a couple of other spells specifically damage demons (and maybe undead) without MR checks.

Blood/Death = access to lots of vampires. Having both paths is pretty strong, as you can slip sideways to Astral and Earth easily from Death and you have a shot at the Blood uniques etc. Of course, it helps to know what minor paths you get with them.

[LumenPlacidum]

Wait, what lets you go from death to earth? Spectral mages? Edit: ah yes, 1/16 of them will have enough earth to site search and forge the first booster...

[Redeyes]

Originally Posted by LumenPlacidum

Wait, what lets you go from death to earth? Spectral mages? Edit: ah yes, 1/16 of them will have enough earth to site search and forge the first booster...

That and the ubiquitous Cyclops Tartarians if you want to count those as "easy" - they'll certainly be common in the endgame.

The big problems demons face is indeed banishment, especially when facing opponents who have the ability to form priest led communions - banishment under a communion has an exponential growth in strength what with the the penetration boost and a large linear increase in both damage and area.

[Gregstrom]

@Lumenplacidum: The first couple of E1s you get can go and start site searching manually. That way you have the option of empowering if you don't get any E2s in an acceptable timeframe.

[Baneslave]

So, making all national troops demons is good reason to increase their stats. Also, holy and blood spells that increase mr or give other demon specific bonuses seems nice. That is thematic too.

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

Of course, it helps to know what minor paths you get with them.

At this moment none, but that may change.

BTW, what would happen if unit has both demon and undead attributes?

[Ragnarok-X]

Just look at Yomi if you want to compare demon stats.

[Baneslave]

Ragnarok-X: Good point. I never noticed that Oni have so high MR. And heavy armour my demons carry doesn't help either.

[Baalz]

Yeah, banishment is surprisingly painful against heavy troops even with a decent MR. The reason is because its got a large AOE, does AN damage, and is very, very easy to spam. Plenty of nations have at least H1 on their research mages, and indie priests are really easy to mass...so if each casting affects a few of your guys with AN damage it starts stacking up really fast if you don't have just swarms of guys (skellispam).

[Baneslave]

Heavy armour actually makes the situation worse as:
1. Troops cost more
2. It takes longer to get to close combat

I need to test how well +4 mr demon only holy spell works.

On the other hand, sacred unit with no less than 9 stages (forms) is hilariously overpowered ATM.