MP: HeatvsCold - started

[13lackGu4rd]

ok we're finally running with it.
Game: HeatvsCold
Diplomacy: 3v3
Teams:
Hot:
Graeme Dice - Abysia
BigDaddy - C'tis
Hoplosternum - Lanka
Cold:
Trumanator - Niefelheim
Frozen Lama - Caelum
13lackGu4rd - Helheim
Map: Small Divide 3v3
Mods: CBM 1.6

[SnallTrippin]

I'd be interested but I'm just learning my way around MP.

[Ironhawk]

Can niefel and van/hel blood sacrifice? If not that would mean the heat nations would have a much easier time pushing their temperature dom onto the other team.

Also, keep in mind that Wolven Winter changes a targetted prov to cold but there is no spell that does the reverse for heat (tho there are globals for both).

[Gregstrom]

Van can certainly blood sac, and I'm not 100% sure but I think niefel can. Niefel and Aby both spread their temperature outside their dominion anyway, IIRC.

For that matter, Niefel and Van are competent blood nations so I'm not sure having Lanka and Mictlan on the same team would be that much of an issue.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

Can niefel and van/hel blood sacrifice? If not that would mean the heat nations would have a much easier time pushing their temperature dom onto the other team.

Also, keep in mind that Wolven Winter changes a targetted prov to cold but there is no spell that does the reverse for heat (tho there are globals for both).

yes both Vanheim and Helheim can blood sacrifice, but their hunters aren't really cost effective, but it still a very valid strategy for them. yes Wolven Winter is a bit problematic, but keep in mind that the cold global, Illwinter I assume, is Niefelheim only, which will be in the game but it's not as accessible as the general Second Sun global. however there are battlefield spells that cause both heat and cold, so I wouldn't worry about that too much, especially since on paper the Heat team has stronger nations than the Cold team...

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

Van can certainly blood sac, and I'm not 100% sure but I think niefel can. Niefel and Aby both spread their temperature outside their dominion anyway, IIRC.

For that matter, Niefel and Van are competent blood nations so I'm not sure having Lanka and Mictlan on the same team would be that much of an issue.

yes Niefelheim can also blood sacrifice. yes Niefel and Van are competent blood nations, but you can't compare them to the real blood powers in Mictlan and Lanka. the later have very cheap and cost effective blood hunters, unique blood summons, etc. Niefel and Van rely on the standard blood goodies but with cheaper and less cost effective hunters(Skratti and Vans mainly) and neither have unique blood summons. also Mictlan and Lanka are very well off with just construction and blood researched, both Niefel and Van need the other research schools a lot more, so you can't just go all in blood with them...

so with both Mictlan and Lanka on the same team, the other team won't get a fair chance(if a chance at all) to go for the blood uniques(Ice and Arch Devils, Heliophagus, Demon Lords, etc). hence I think limiting it to just 1 pure blood power will be good enough, and give the other team a chance to at least get some of the blood uniques, especially if the Heat team gets Lanka instead of Mictlan, which will give them harder access to the standard blood uniques but give them Lanka unique summons.

the way I see it the Heat team is more like a slumbering giant that tries to brute force its way in while the Cold team is like a cluster grenade that explodes all over the place with flying Eagles(Caelum) and air drops(Cloud Trapezing Vanjarls and Teleporting Gygjas).

[Septimius Severus]

I like the concept of themes and more team games are very much needed.

Heat (fire & blood?) vs cold (water/air) could make for some very steamy action. One team might have cold resistant units, the other fire resistant units. It would be an interesting challenge to see fire vs. water go head-to-head. If your splitting the blood as a secondary theme for each team that might even things a bit. Using appropriately themed pretenders might also assist in protecting each sides unique advantages, that is if you want each side to have unique advantages. Once you've refined and crystalized the concept, I'd enjoy such a matchup. Love to observe it as well.

[BigDaddy]

I don't know... I'm surprised you think that Neifel, Van, Hel is so marginal in comparison to two blood nations (or three with Abysia) or and C'tis. I don't claim to know ctis well, but would play it in this game, if the theme looks well developed and fair.

[13lackGu4rd]

while Niefel at least has a somewhat cost effective hunter in the Skratti(especially the B3 ones), it's still a lot more expensive than 3 small H1 Mictlan/Lanka sacred hunters. Van and Hel pretty much have the Vanjarls, which are very not cost efficient when you're looking at blood hunting alone. yes it does fit into their strategies as a whole, as seen in Baalz's Helheim guide for example, but compare unit to unit you'll see the huge difference.

Abysia, while could be considered as a somewhat blood nation, only has capital mages with Blood access, and neither of them are sacred, so less cost efficient, and much tougher to maintain in the long run. C'tis doesn't have native access to blood at all, they do have access to Lamia Queens which can get them into blood, but that's no different than many other non blood nations...

Septimius, the whole Fire+Blood vs Water+Air looks good on paper, however I don't see it happening for the Cold side. Caelum fits perfectly, but what about the rest...? Helheim is more of a death nation than an air nation, and partial blood. Vanheim is more of an air nation, sure, but again partial blood. Niefel is ugh... water+death if I had to put them anywhere and ignore their blood element. it seems that not enough nations are really focused on air magic, and some of those that are, Fomoria for example, don't fit the cold theme at all.

also, since blood magic is so powerful having it as a theme for 1 team and not for the other just cries imbalance in my opinion. Mictlan and Lanka are considered as super powers in EA because of their ridiculous blood access and summons. Sauromatia is also an EA powerhouse because of its versatility. blood gives it a lot of this versatility, as the place to go to once you've exhausted the Androphag Archers route.

another thing that goes against the non blood nations in this case is that the other main alternative to blood would be death. death summons are mostly undeads, which are cold immune but very vulnerable to fire, especially the "holy fire" types that does double/triple damage to undeads such as the Holy Scourge, Flambeau, etc. so the Heat team has a monopoly for blood magic and the perfect counters for the undead, what else does the Cold team have in their arsenal?

[Fantomen]

Skrattis are quite cost effective blood hunters actually, as they are upkeep free in werewolf form.

[Micah]

No, the skratti upkeep exploit was patched.