Lamia queen uses.

[Curious Yellow]

I'm a relative newbie and am playing Man in an MP game (vanilla). Part of my strategy for magic diversification was choosing a pretender who could summon lamia queens. Does anyone have good experiences using them as thugs? They seem pretty survivable with their regen and second form, but lack protection. I'm also wary of adding much non-misc gear to them, as this will disappear if they shift to snake form if I understand correctly. Maybe it's better to just use firbolgs at 40% of the gem cost for this purpose and keep the queens in the lab? I control the steel ovens, a 20% construction bonus site.

[Gregstrom]

Yeah, Lamia Queens aren't the best thugs. However, they can summon Banes for thugging purposes. Fir Bolg are okay too, although you do have some encumbrance issues.

[thejeff]

Lamia Queens are expensive for thugs and not good enough for SCs. There might be niche uses, but you're right that they're primarily casters. They can summon better cheaper thugs, break into Blood and do pretty well as tough battle mages.

[Maerlande]

I agree with thejeff. To me the big use of Lamia Queens is breaking into blood and nice cross paths. They are great Rain of Toads casters with a bit of boosting.

I think it's a great plan for diversity, but don't thug them. They are too valuable in the lab or casting battle magic. I'd say you should then summon up some Spectres to diversify more. You should get lamias who can do that with a skull staff. Then you probably will luck out with a WD spectre or magi who can cast Hidden in Snow. That will get you good ED magi if you do it in a magic province.

Sounds like good options. Lamia's should get you diversfied. I'm in a game with Man and his bards are kinda tough. Seems to me you could lightly thug bards to do PD raids. I've seen him take out low PD with naked bards.

[thejeff]

Spectres can also get you ES, which is nice for forging.

How do thug bards work? Low protection, no shield, N1. Arrows should drop them.

[Curious Yellow]

Been thinking about bard raiding thugs myself. Bow of war, some sort of missile protection and casting eagle eye. Not sure how effective it would be, might be able to take out some types of PD.

[Maerlande]

Well, I meant very lightly on the bards. Like 3-6 gems worth.

[Amorphous]

Give the bard a squad of wardens.

Such a squad can take out reasonable levels of PD without using any gems. If your opponent starts investing enough in PD to keep such squads at bay, trapezing in a mother to help is an option.