Counter Intelligence Again

Magus38 · #1 November 1st, 2001, 02:27 AM

Has anyone else noticed that it seems the mechanics of Counter Intelligence has changed? I, for one, would love Richard to post MM's official, newly official, explanation on how it works precisely. In detail. Here's why...

It used to be that you would run a certain number of CI projects. These projects would continue to accumulate intel points until used to oppose an enemy intel attack, at which point the project would (in theory) be restarted. Imo, it never actually worked that way. When a project was hit it simply lost (to all appearances) a potential equaling the value of the attack it successfully opposed - in other words the project was advanced X number of Intel points (X being the value of the attack) towards its' completion. Fine.

Along came the bug horribilis! Now only the first CI project opposed an intel attack, all the subsequent CI projects were bypassed - leading many of us play games with no intel (a sad state of affairs). Finally, we rejoiced as along came a new antibiotic in the form of Version 1.49, killing forever this horrible bug... but what has been left in its' place?

This is how it seems to me... Counter Intelligence projects run now just like they used to before the bug, but with one critical difference. Each project can block multiple attacks per turn, assuming there is sufficient intel point investment. This is a significant improvement to the system and it appears now to be what it always should have been... You can defend yourself up to the limits imposed by your intelligence production, rather than the arbitrary limit imposed by a finite number of slots to run projects in. Once again - all may rejoice.

Or am I hallucinating? I am basing the above observations on games I am currently playing with 1.49. Many times I have examined the turn log to find successful counter intelligence notifications exceeding the number of counter intelligence projects running. In my current game, Last turn I successfully defended against 13 attacks (yes, 13) while only running 8 CI projects...

Has anyone else observed the same phenomenon and reached similar or different conclusions?

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geoschmo · #2 November 1st, 2001, 03:05 AM

I agree that is what I am seeing. It appears that a single counter intel project can defend against multiple attacks as long as the sum of the intel projects against you does not equal more than the intel you are producing, minus any you are spending on intel projects directed at others.

IMHO it's definetly better, but it's kind of boring. It turns into a race to see who can generate the most intel points.

Personally I have not been disapointed by all the no-intel games I have been playing in while the bug has been around.

Geoschmo

Dragonlord · #3 November 1st, 2001, 05:21 AM

Ah, finally a good thread to launch my Intel questions in.

yes I too have seen a single project blocking multiple offenses. But CI seems too easy now....for instance if I have a CI project with 200k points saved up, I can stop 4 Crew insurrections. In my Last game (started before the patch of course) I had 400k intel production, was running just one CI project, stopped most attacks against me, and could launch 6-7 attacks per turn myself.
What I usually did was use "distribute points evenly" , to make sure I was always feeding the CI project, leading to some inefficient use, eg. if I wanted a 50k project to end on the same turn as a 10k project I would end up spending 50k on the 10k project. Now with the patch, I happily turned off the "even points distribution", launch my intel offenses, and push the CI project to the end of the list.

Tip: lets say I want a "Fleet concentrations" and "Empire archives" to come through, I alternate them (say 3 times) and then run CI. The Last set of two offenses will probably get through. (Fc/Ea/Fc/Ea/Fc/Ea/CI)

Now what I would like to know: what happens if you have some points saved up in CI, you start an intel offense, push your CI project(s) to the end of the list, and DON'T fund them (spending too much on offense), and in the next turn you get hit by an enemy Intel offensive....would the CI project still apply?

If so, I can do some nasty things...I can build intel facilities early on, keep funding my piggybank of CI, then when I meet an enemy switch completely to offense while still benefitting from earlier saved CI points. (hoping he did not do the same thing

Thoughts?

Puke · #4 November 1st, 2001, 06:30 AM

speaking of intel questions, heres one (though not CI related):

homeworlds are not PPPable. you can set a colony type to 'homeworld' on colonization in a sequential game, and i am sure there is some way to hack your ministers to do it in a simultanious game. the question: if you set all your colonies to 'homeworld,' are you immune from PPP?

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"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

Captain Kwok · #5 November 1st, 2001, 07:43 AM

I'm enjoying the revamped intelligence system - I think it works a lot better than originally (before the big bug).

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Captain Kwok = Captain Spoogy

"Reality is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there..."

LazarusLong42 · #6 November 1st, 2001, 08:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Puke:
speaking of intel questions, heres one (though not CI related):

homeworlds are not PPPable. you can set a colony type to 'homeworld' on colonization in a sequential game, and i am sure there is some way to hack your ministers to do it in a simultanious game. the question: if you set all your colonies to 'homeworld,' are you immune from PPP?

1. I'm certain I've PPP'd homeworlds before. At least, I'm almost certain. Hrm...

2. In simultaneous games, go to the Colonies window, and you can manually set the Type for each colony. For future reference for ya

Eric/LL

Magus38 · #7 November 1st, 2001, 11:35 PM

Thanks, everybody. In response to some of your observations, without being specific, yes it is possible to manipulate the system the way it is currently designed, but I still largely prefer it to the slot based model we previously 'enjoyed'. This is much more realistic and gives some ground to those players who wish to play species specializing in 'cunning'. Overall I am much happier.

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Baron Munchausen · #8 November 2nd, 2001, 01:33 AM

Yes, counter-intelligence seems to have been changed from earlier verions. I finally like the way counter-intelligence works. I had not thought of the possible 'cheat' that Dragon-lord suggests but it might be corrected by a simple change like requiring diplomatic contact with an alien race before counter-intel can be queued up.

jimbob55 · #9 November 2nd, 2001, 04:54 AM

um. maybe I'm wrong but 1.49 with TDM mod you do need contact to queue CI projects.

You need contact with at least one race however the AI seems to have the advantage from play order. I lost contact with everyone in the galaxy and the turn I moved into contact again (I couldn't queue any intel projects on the turn I ordered the move) I was hit with 3 intel projects with no chance for defense.
Very upsetting.

Cyrien · #10 November 2nd, 2001, 04:41 PM

1. You can't do anything with intel until you have contact.

2. One CI can block multiple intel attacks. I normally run just one and with my intel intensive race can then block all the incoming and use the other 11 slots to crush their own CI.

3. I am very sure that I have PPPed the Terrans homeworld before. I had 11 PPP's hitting them per turn as a MEE since they were weak and the Krill were rapidly becoming a second MEE and a threat on the far side of the Galaxy... Next thing I know is I have world with Large size (as all homeworlds that game were) with the 120ish % in all resources that homeworlds of good value have, and mineral miners, 1 organic and 1 radioactive, with a resupply a spaceport a spaceyard and the rest filled with research. To top it off the Weapon platforms on it where like an evolutionary chart of the Terrans advancing techs. 1 with CM 2, 1 with CM 3, 1 with CM 4, then a whole lot with maxed CM all using the graphics of the Terrans.

I thus conclude that PPP is possible of homeworlds. Heh... too bad I don't still have the game and don't remember if it's type said homeworld. I mostly ignore those planet types thingies and most of mine are just blank or have something generic like resource colony, or R&I colony.