Infantry-only Tactics and Help?

[Cragspyder]

Hello there! This is my first post on this forum so I hope I am not being too forward by creating a thread, but this question is why I registered on this forum in the first place, as this is the only forum I can find that discusses my favourite old hex-based Strategy game, Steel Panthers 2, and its less-buggy successor WinSP:MBT.

I have been playing the original SP2 in Dosbox, seems to run fairly well except it crashes after the scoreboard in every mission .

I seem to have pretty much gotten defense-related tactics down, I actually did very well in the last scenario I played where I had only several Korean War era US infantry and recoilless rifles vs about 20 NK tanks and supporting infantry.

However, on the attack is where I tend to have major problems. My units tend to get destroyed as they advance due to op-fire, and if I advance the 1 hex per turn advised in most other guides then I don't have the time to take the objective hexes.

In reality, I thought that smoke was supposed to help the attacking force much more then the defensive one. However, in SP, I've been finding that it is the opposite... When I am on the defensive I usually drop smoke all over my own lines, so when the enemy tries to advance through the smoke, they are ripped apart by attacks from adjacent hexes. This is what happens to me when I drop smoke as I advance, so I have taken to leaving things as clear as possible, but that means that I have no cover as I approach the enemy lines....

Mostly I have trouble in scenarios where I have an Infantry-only force and I am trying to assault a hill or other location defended by enemy infantry. If anyone has played Steel Panthers 2, Chosin I (Chinese side) or Pork Chop Hill (US Side) are good examples of scenarios where I have problems.

I guess I don't understand how to use Infantry in general. I have noticed that most Infantry units are only really effective from a distance of 1 hex or less, especially against tanks. However, without smoke, how do you ever get to the 1hex range, and even if you do, how do you avoid being destroyed by OP fire?

I have found, even when moving infantry into a hex to the rear of a tank that is not facing my way, that the tank will turn its turret and destroy the squad as soon as the squad enters the adjacent hex... I thought tanks had trouble seeing infantry in their back arc?

So, I guess I am asking if anyone has any advice using Infantry (without APCs or other such protection). Do you drop smoke on the attack or not? How about for defense? Do you set all your infantry units to 1 hex engagement range so they can destroy tanks or do you set them to fire at max range? How about for MGs? How about for bazooka/recoilless rifle teams (who also seem to have trouble even hitting tanks unless they are adjacent)?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice.

[Imp]

Firstly why not come into the modern world & download these games. I never played the originals & from posts other people have placed never will as these games are far superior. Same basic game but a lot of work has gone into polishing the product, & I do mean a lot. Apart from the game improvements that scenerio is still available & a lot more to.
Scouting try to find him nicely & suppresion are what you need. Thats where you miss the vehicles need arty or something else. Same goes for tanks if possible try to attack from nearby cover then you can sneak up, faster you go more chance of being seen but moving one hex beside is completly possible so long as you have stripped it of infantry cover.
I may be wrong here perhaps a designer will chip in but in these games tank crews are normally pretty well trained & will look behind if not buttoned. Against low exp troops I have however in desperation run 3 hexes in the open from the rear up to a unmolested tank unnoticed, incredibly risky mind not a sensible tactic.

[Cragspyder]

I have already downloaded Main Battle Tank, I just like playing SP2 occasionally.

I can't figure out how to use infantry properly in either game, though, so I was hoping this community would have some advice.

EDIT: You mean Main Battle Tank still has those old scenarios from SP2? I must have missed that!

If that's the case there really is no reason to go back to SP2.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Cragspyder

I have already downloaded Main Battle Tank, I just like playing SP2 occasionally.

I can't figure out how to use infantry properly in either game, though, so I was hoping this community would have some advice.

EDIT: You mean Main Battle Tank still has those old scenarios from SP2? I must have missed that!

If that's the case there really is no reason to go back to SP2.

This forum is for the discussion of the Camo Workshop's games only.

Discussion of the peculiarities of the old DOS SSI game would only confuse visitors to the forums.

For Korea, see scenarios 1,2, 88-92, 37, 38, 116, 117, 158, 162, 167, 191

Cheers
Andy

[Cragspyder]

Alright then, we can ignore all references to SP2 if you want. I didn't mean to confuse the issue.

However, I think my questions are still applicable to WinSP MBT.

Is there any advice that anyone can provide regarding Infantry use in WinSP: MBT, especially regarding assaulting positions defended by infantry with a group of infantry-only units?

[Cross]

Originally Posted by Cragspyder

Is there any advice that anyone can provide regarding Infantry use in WinSP: MBT, especially regarding assaulting positions defended by infantry with a group of infantry-only units?

Three bits of advice:

1. Don't string your troops out in a long line for an assault.

You want to apply a lot of force at a small part of the front to punch through. A rule of thumb is 3:1 So you will want a company to assault an area defended by a platoon, if possible.

2. Supression

You must get the defenders supressed. Preferably with direct fire, but use area fire (z-fire) if don't have LOS. Having 3 platoons against 1 will help you do this.

3. Using good tactics like 'fire and movement'.

Stationary units fire far more accurately. Use them to supress defenders, then move another platoon forward.

If the defenders fire at a unit, fire back at them with another unit. A units fire becomes more accurate each consecutive time it fires at the same target. So by engaging the defender with several different units, you force the defender to return fire in several directions, making their fire less accurate.

Hope this helps
Cross

[Cragspyder]

Thanks very much for your advice, Cross.

Do you make any use for smoke for attacking (aside from against Earthen Bunkers or the like which of course I understand need to be smoked up and then taken down from the sides by Engineers).

Or do you keep LOS as clear as possible?

[Imp]

Varies on the situation but you use smoke as a screen. As cross said you want numerical superiorty, one way to do this is place smoke to take some defenders out of the picture leaving you to deal with the ones you can see. This leaves you free to deal with them as units on the flank will not be taking pot shots at you. Or place behind the group you want to attack if they have supporting fire further back. If you are in range to move to the killing zone (50m) you can now do so without danger & quickly move on.

[Marek_Tucan]

Another use of smoke is of course in situations when there is a suitable cover close to enemy line, and you ave to approach it across open terrain.
Anyway, key rule is Supression rules the battle. Use anything available to supress the enemy. Machineguns are great. If a company is attacking, keep company MGs back in the rear, move them only if you need LOS, and use them to keep their heads down.
Same goes for antitank guns, field guns etc. You might find that field guns in doirect fire and Z fire can be significantly more responsive than classic indirect procedures (though are more fulnerable to couter-fires), the same for vasrious SP guns.

[Mobryan]

If you're playing as US infantry, always bring your mother to the fight.

M2s put up on a ridge or hillside are great supression tools, they have a huge advantage in range over the .30 cal weapons, and better bang for the buck then 60mm mortars.


Matt