HE vs AP tank fire

[pjbandit2003]

I am currently playing a long campaign as the Japanese. I have some Type 89 Yi-Go medium tanks with the 57mm Type 90 main gun with approx. 50 HE and 30 AP rounds basic loadout. The problem I have is that they will not fire the AP rounds. They consistently fire HE even at the FT-17 TG tanks of the Chinese at 50, 100, and even 150 meters. Is this a something normal or what. It is really aggravating to keep hitting these tanks with HE and getting a pen of 0 or 1 when the armor is 2 or 3. It does suppress them but it should blow them to pieces. Can anyone expand on this?

Thanks

Ken

P>S> if you would like to see this I have it saved and will send it to you.

[Imp]

If I remember correctly this tank hardly ever fires AP has to be within a couple of hexes though you say still fires HE even then. The AP is rubbish only marginally better than HE & short range gun so HE is actually more effective.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Imp

If I remember correctly this tank hardly ever fires AP has to be within a couple of hexes though you say still fires HE even then. The AP is rubbish only marginally better than HE & short range gun so HE is actually more effective.

Correct.

The best theoretical penetration for HE for that gun and WH size is 4 which matches the best theoretical "Best AP" penetration and beats standard AP pen by 1

Weapon ID 11 37mm L46 Type94 on the other hand has a "Best HE" pen of 2 but a AP pen of 5 and a "Best AP" pen of 6 so you won't see the situation you describle when that ATG is used.

The Yi-Go is best used as infantry support not tank/tank fighting

Don

[pjbandit2003]

Thanks for the info. So what do the Japanese have that is a mobile AT weapon. None of the infantry have AT weapons (with the exception of the polemine) and only a couple of them use them. None in a regular infantry company. The only tank that is listed is the Yi-Go and it is really ineffective against any armor so they really have no AT capability in the early war years? No wonder they lost.

Correct.

The best theoretical penetration for HE for that gun and WH size is 4 which matches the best theoretical "Best AP" penetration and beats standard AP pen by 1

So when does this come into play. The best penetration I can get is 1 at range 1(50m). The only thing I am able to do is assault with infantry and all they have is the type 91 grenade.

[PatG]

You will get kills with the 57mm at 0 hex range. The 37mm inf gun - a copy of the French puteaux has relatively good AP performance (as in only in this theatre at this time period and compared against what else is available). AT work is pretty much down to your Gunjin. Suppress the hell out of the target with knee mortars then move in for close assault. Luckily, you recover from suppression very quickly. Engineers would be another option.

In a previous campaign, I have had Chinese and Japanese armour bypass each other because their main guns could only scratch each others paint!

Watch out for 37mm panzerknackers in Nationalist Chinese service they can really chew you up. The Japanese get a copy of this and all around better ATG in the late 30's.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by pjbandit2003

Thanks for the info. So what do the Japanese have that is a mobile AT weapon. None of the infantry have AT weapons (with the exception of the polemine) and only a couple of them use them. None in a regular infantry company. The only tank that is listed is the Yi-Go and it is really ineffective against any armor so they really have no AT capability in the early war years? No wonder they lost.

So when does this come into play. The best penetration I can get is 1 at range 1(50m). The only thing I am able to do is assault with infantry and all they have is the type 91 grenade.

Before 1936, then the only useful medium-range infantry AT weapon is the 50mm grenade launcher, which is about as useful as the 57mm CS howitzer on the tanks. And field guns firing HE as well.

I would target any armour seen with your howitzers in indirect or direct fire. You may well blow their tracks off. Or drop smoke on or in front of them and approach with infantry to close assault them.

In 1936, you get access to the 37mm ATG, and in 37 a tank with the 37mm, for reliable and useful AT capacity, and also the AT rifle teams.

But the Chinese do not use much armour in any case, and it tends to be slow and easily dealt with. Your infantry quality is good, so if any tank gets annoying, then drive off any supporting infantry, force it to close down (enough 50mm mortar hits may put it to retreat status, making it easier to assault), and then swarm over it with multiple close assaults. Same with close assault - one of these may make it go to retreating status, so any follow on with another assault team is easier.

Andy

[kongxinga]

Pre 1936 Chinese theatre is my favourite, but I usually play as the Nationalist Chinese. Pretty much the only theatre where a tankette is a BIG deal, unlike European theatres where anything less then a T-34 is yawn inducing, and quickly finished with Inf-AT or nice AT guns like 88s.

Back on topic, the FT-17 TG is the workforce of the armored force, but the one of the things I am really worried about is Japanese Air Strikes. For good reason, Japan almost always gets complete air superiority, so load up on some air strikes. These tanks are really vulnerable to being strafed and bombed, and you can easily get a catastrophic kill, and mobility kills are very common, after which you can hit them with arty. Or leave them to be mopped up by engineers. Nat Chi only has really wimpy anti air MGs (and in previous patches lacked AA completely!), and these anti air MGs are not going to follow the tanks around, so you can bomb with impunity.

On a side note, the FT-17 TG has the same problem killing enemy tanks as the Japanese do, so I often switch them with the T-27 Mg tank with 3 frontal armor, and leave my mobile tank killing to the Shanghai armored cars (the ones that look like a railroad car with a gun screwed on), which can reliably kill all Japanese armor even from the front. Perhaps there is something similar that the Japanese have.

[pjbandit2003]

Well thanks to all. I somehow got through the early years and have upgraded my 6 type 89s to the Type 89B it can actually kill the tanks and ACs out to a range of 6 or so with not too many problems. I have 2 companies of infantry, and only 6 tanks so any tanks that the Nat Chinese come up with is a big threat.

Thanks again

Ken

[gila]

pjbandit,
How are you?
How about you and me in short Spanish Civil war campaign?

[pjbandit2003]

Originally Posted by gila

pjbandit,
How are you?
How about you and me in short Spanish Civil war campaign?

I am fine and you.

What you thinking about? Send me an email.

Ken