Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Game Over. Noobs Triumph!
The vet team has conceded at turn 35. Send in your last turn (35) if you wish.
Congratulations to the victorious noob team.
On behalf of rdonj and myself, thanks to everyone for participating. Hope to see you all again soon in future games.
This is a team game and the final game in the Noobs vs. Vets trilogy.
This time around we continue our focus on magic research but with an added emphasis on somewhat larger armies and bigger battles as befitting the theme and storyline.
Disclaimer: Be forewared that this game concept is not for the timid or the faint of heart and is inherently unbalanced. If the prospect of going up against some of the best players in the game or of facing long odds makes you want to soil yourself or cry out for your mommy, then this game is not for you.
Settings:
Server: Llamaserver ................................. Era: Middle Age ............................... Mods: CBM 1.5 Magic Research: Easy ............................ Special Site Frequency: 40 ............ Indie strength: 4 Score Graphs: On ................................... HOF Entries: 15 .............................. Random Event Frequency: Common Money, Resource, Supply Multiple: 150...Starting Provinces: 1........................Renaming: On
Game Administrators: Septimius Severus, rdonj.
Team Captains: melnorjr (Noobs), TheDemon (Vets).
Hosting interval: Quickhost. First 10 @ 32 hours, 8 hours added every 10 turns thereafter with the maximum to be decided by consensus.
Victory conditions: No vps/victory, annihilation of opposing team.
Treaties: Both teams will refrain from any hostile actions upon the other team's capital for a period of 5 turns from the start of the game.
Delays: Liberal. Automatically granted provided I receive a PM in time and you post on the thread as well to let everyone know, and there are no major objections.
Team makeup: Noobs will square off against Vets in a ratio equivalent to 2:1.
Qualifications: Noob starting players should be "fresh and green" with limited MP and SP experience (5 or less MP game participation). Vet starting players should either be hall of famers or have extensive MP and SP game experience. More experienced Noobs and less experienced Vets may opt for placement in an alternate slot. New to MP? Check out the Llamaserver FAQ
Alternates: Anyone joining as an alternate must provide an e-mail address on signup via PM and must be willing and available to sub on short notice if need be. Alternates may be selected to fill empty team slots prior to game start.
Team bonuses/privileges: Vets retain the right to veto/object to the participation of any player on either team on the grounds of too much/too little experience. Returning alternates from the previous game will receive priority in nation selection.
Team Forums: Forums for both teams have been created and are expected to be used. Failure to adequately maintain communication and coordination with fellow team members will result in your immediate replacement.
Nation Selection: Upon reaching at least the minimum recruitment level (18), nation selection will proceed via ordered list method (by popular demand). Each team will compose a list ranked in order of preference and nations will be awarded on an alternating basis with Noobs starting first. All starting players must be assigned a nation one way or another.
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
The story so far:
Mysterio could barely conceal his delight from his fellow vet pretender gods. The noob team was defeated, their armies scattered, their leaders killed or driven into exile, and their people forced into squalid servitude. But his revenge while sweet would prove to have a rather unpleasant aftertaste. Mysterio had sucessfuly avenged both the death of his beloved Mysteria and the vet team defeat which led to it, however, due to a miscalutation, Mysterio had no way of rejoining Mysteria nor of determining whether his goal of altering the past and preventing those terrible events from taking place in the future, had been achieved. Mysterio was now trapped in the past and had no way to return to his own time, for the arcane magicks he had used to enable his trip would not be developed for ages to come. He would have to wait. A long, long, long time....
It was a time of sorrow thoughout the whole of the world. For the realization of their defeat and the fear of their impending enslavement drove people everywhere into utter despair. Noob men tore their garments and beat their breasts in disgrace whilst noob women wailed and gnashed their teeth in terror. Unfortunately for the poor noob people, their vet masters turned out to be the cruelest of overseers. Mysterio was especially cruel (trapped as he was in this age), raping women and killing children without mercy. For many generations the noob nations toiled under the oppessive yoke of slavery. But pockets of resistance grew. They were especially strong in what remained of noob nations like Vanheim, Ermor, Mictlan, T'ien chi, and Sauromatia. Thoughout the land a great willing was heard; a growing yearning for freedom. Then one day an assassin of Vanheim murdered Mysterio and the pent-up anguish, misery, and rage of countless noob peoples exploded into a full blown rebellion. Not merely another uprising like so many before, this would be a revolution!!
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
To balance it a bit this time, I was considering allowing the vets to retain their advantages and just bump the n:v ratio up to 3:1. I think though that this may scare away even those vets with the gumption to participate in this sort of game, so perhaps it is best to just strip first choice from the vets and stick with 2:1. Suggestions?
If this is the case, then Likely nation selection will be first come, first serve as in the first game, with returning alternates of course having first dibs (a NvV tradition). Of those alternates returning priority would go to the vets (in other words Zeldor and Namad would be pretty much guaranteed their nation choice if they started). I like the alternating idea of one of the vets but I'm not sure how to work that out quickly and efficiently. Suggestions?
With regard to map it may depend on final number of signups but with 24 or so player goal, I'm looking at Balbarian's Aom Ogre Semi Rand or Glory of the Gods (orginal). Even Cleveland's Planet Rorschach is a possibility. Could also ban all water nations and add in some mod nations to prevent any premature hostilities. Suggestions?
Easy research I think should still be retained, though I do want there to be an emphasis on massive armies. To make this possible perhaps maxing out the starting resource and supply multiples. Suggestions?
Special site frequency will likely be scaled back to normal and random events (by popular request) will be common!
Mod nations would also be added if the vets retain first choice to prevent them from monopolizing all the power nations.
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
Could do something similar to what Gregstrom did with his Unsanity game, (ie. have people nominate nations and randomly assign from there). I don't know how many nations you're going for in this bout but it's a good way to keep things fair as people tend to be too cautious to nominate overly powerful nations.
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
well all I know is I want to try Skaven in a MP game. perhaps with a nation I am atleast adequetely good with, or atleast in solo games. I'll be able to put up a fight this time
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
The NAP created a quite interesting situation. I think no matter the odds or nations, a vet will be able to expand at around twice the pace a noob will, as long as he doesn't have to worry about defense. Whether it benefits the game or not on a big map is probably up to debate. On a small map, I would keep it for sure.
Another consideration that I think hurt the noob team in the last game was the starting locations. Not that I want to fault you for them, but this game if they are preset the noob team should be spread over the same number of provs per player as the vet team. I seem to recall discussion on the vet IRC channel that the noob capitals were quite close and there was a big gap between the teams. Obviously its bad especially if you keep the NAP that any of your players get choked for territory early, especially by teammates.
On my alternating nation choice idea, probably the only efficient way would be to have each team work out a ranked list and submit it by PM to a neutral party (or the host). I mean, last game each team pretty much produced a list anyway, and since vets had priority we produced our list first then the noobs produced their list, which technically speaking takes twice the time.
One last thing, make sure you re-specify what counts as noob. Some of your players from the last two games have definitely graduated.
And finally I would have to think long and hard about my participation. I'm not sure I can handle the dedication to another team game.
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Septimius Severus
Easy research I think should still be retained, though I do want there to be an emphasis on massive armies. To make this possible perhaps maxing out the starting resource and supply multiples. Suggestions?
Did you guys not like the thug/magic gamestyle we played? See the thing about massive armies is they can't be beat by attrition. It's about force multipliers and about figuring out how to do damage without taking losses. Force multipliers are things like Wailing Winds, Mass Protection, Body Ethereal, Flaming Arrows, Destruction, Storm, and Mass Flight (as Vanheim figured out last turn). As for causing disproportionate casualties, those EK/Yazad groups I used were all or nothing proposals. Either they wiped the floor with next to no casualties or I lose everything. The same goes for thug and SC combat. It doesn't matter how many men you swarm the Jarl with if he has enough reinvig, regen, and a cold aura. When they get close, they get stuck behind their frozen friends, then they get frozen themselves, then they get carved up. If you want to beat him, you have to hit him with something other than more men. That's what combat in Dominions is like. I don't think increasing the resource/supply/gold multipliers is going to change it. I doubt you'll get more than one or two of the vets fielding massive armies even with those changes.
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavaere
well all I know is I want to try Skaven in a MP game. perhaps with a nation I am atleast adequetely good with, or atleast in solo games. I'll be able to put up a fight this time
The NAP created a quite interesting situation. I think no matter the odds or nations, a vet will be able to expand at around twice the pace a noob will, as long as he doesn't have to worry about defense. Whether it benefits the game or not on a big map is probably up to debate. On a small map, I would keep it for sure.
So you mean that giant nations such as Hinnom don't have an edge when it comes to expansion? Assuming nation selection is not a factor then, why is it that vets can expand so fast vs indies, what's yer secret? heheh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDemon
Another consideration that I think hurt the noob team in the last game was the starting locations. Not that I want to fault you for them, but this game if they are preset the noob team should be spread over the same number of provs per player as the vet team. I seem to recall discussion on the vet IRC channel that the noob capitals were quite close and there was a big gap between the teams. Obviously its bad especially if you keep the NAP that any of your players get choked for territory early, especially by teammates.
Part of this was due to the quirks of the map. I'm defintaely leaning toward some sort of symetrical evenly distributed map, which will make placement much easier and fairer for all. The distance between teams was intentional. Ideally I'd like it be around turn 20 before contact/hostilities break out. With water nations though, it makes it a bit more difficult. This will give noobs a chance to get some research and prevent the vet team behind overwhelmed by the noob early game numerical superiority as as happened in NvV I. Of course an NAP would have a similar effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDemon
One last thing, make sure you re-specify what counts as noob. Some of your players from the last two games have definitely graduated.
Of course I will and vets will retain veto power as always. You may even disqualify me! But you wouldn't do that would ya?
The score is noobs:1 vets:1. This is meant to be the tie breaker. The deciding game.
Last edited by Septimius Severus; May 25th, 2009 at 03:11 AM..
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDemon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Septimius Severus
Easy research I think should still be retained, though I do want there to be an emphasis on massive armies. To make this possible perhaps maxing out the starting resource and supply multiples. Suggestions?
Did you guys not like the thug/magic gamestyle we played? See the thing about massive armies is they can't be beat by attrition. It's about force multipliers and about figuring out how to do damage without taking losses. Force multipliers are things like Wailing Winds, Mass Protection, Body Ethereal, Flaming Arrows, Destruction, Storm, and Mass Flight (as Vanheim figured out last turn). As for causing disproportionate casualties, those EK/Yazad groups I used were all or nothing proposals. Either they wiped the floor with next to no casualties or I lose everything. The same goes for thug and SC combat. It doesn't matter how many men you swarm the Jarl with if he has enough reinvig, regen, and a cold aura. When they get close, they get stuck behind their frozen friends, then they get frozen themselves, then they get carved up. If you want to beat him, you have to hit him with something other than more men. That's what combat in Dominions is like. I don't think increasing the resource/supply/gold multipliers is going to change it. I doubt you'll get more than one or two of the vets fielding massive armies even with those changes.
The resource and supply multiples are being considered as they fit in with the story and theme. Massive amounts of troops (think Spartacus) befitting a major slave uprising. Of course the vets would have the same benefit and giant nations would benefit of course.
In your example, yes, you make good points, assuming the massed troops attacking the Jarl are not immune to cold and or have other buffs. The good thing about Dom3 for every effect/spell there is a counter.
Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Game Over. Noobs Triumph!
Re: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM, Under Construction.
But you wouldn't do that would ya?
Linear Mode
