Gem usage

[chrispedersen]

The caster's gem limit:

A mage can only use his current skill level ...

Is it only a gem limit for the purposes of pathboosting/fatigue reduction?

ergo a 1e1S mage that uses a gem to cast summon earth power, and then did POTS could not then cast Curse of stones (1 earth gems). ?

[lch]

What gem limit are you talking about? The hard limit is 30 gems to get carried per commander. For casting spells, a mage may use as many gems as his path level. Only one of those gems may be used to cast spells from a higher level, the rest is for spell requirements or fatigue reduction. Please edit the topic title to match your question.

[MaxWilson]

The limit is per-cast, not per-combat. If I'm understanding you right, it would be perfectly okay for the mage to spend 1 earth gem to cast Summon Earthpower (now he's E2S1), a pearl to cast Power of the Spheres (now he's E3S2), and then 3 gems to cast Curse of Stones.

However, it will likely take him 5 or 6 turns to do it, since even just casting Summon Earthpower + POTS will boost him to around 126 fatigue, discounting Magic scale effects.

-Max

[chrispedersen]

No, I know thats not exactly right Lch.

You can use a gem to increase your effective level. Increasing your effective level will allow you to cast a spell you couldn't cast; increasing your level also reduces the fatigue you would otherwise incur from a spell. Fatigue = 1/((Current level - required level) +1) * spell fatigue * province modifier + caster encumbrance etc.

The manual says that you can use one gem (only) for this purpose (aka increasing a level) - this is where I think Lch was slightly wrong - not once for boosting a level and other times for reducing fatigue).

I guess the simple test on the other is see if an F1 mage can cast will o whisp multiple times.

[lch]

Well, I didn't check but this is how I've always assessed gems: You can use one gem to boost your level. That spell will then have double fatigue because it still counts as being cast by a "lesser" mage that has one level less than needed. You can use additional gems to help combat fatigue, for each gem invested it is being halved, AFAIK, discounting gems that are needed to cast the spell in the first place. You'll still need to include those gems that are needed to cast the spell in the first place in the calculation how many gems a mage may spend.

Example: A S4 mage trying to cast a S5 spell which requires 5 or even only 4 gems (theoretically) won't be able to boost his paths to cast that spell.

[MaxWilson]

Here's how it actually works: lch is correct that any gems required to cast the spell (fatigue/100) count against the limit without reducing fatigue or increasing paths. You can spend extra gems beyond the required, up to [PathLevel - (fatigue-100)] extra. The first extra gem spent raises your effective level for all purposes, including fatigue reduction (it does NOT cost double fatigue for being under-level). Further gems increase pathlevel ONLY for purposes of fatigue reduction, which means if you're N levels over requirements the spell costs 1/(N+1) times normal. Examples from a test game:

A Helheim Dis has 0 fatigue and 2 gems. She casts Raise Skeletons. She has 1D naturally, and spends 1 gem to boost her level enough to cast the spell. Raise Skeletons is 40 fatigue, and her effective casting level is 2D, and her spellcasting encumbrance is 8. She winds up with 48 fatigue and 1 gem left. The next round she casts Raise Dead, which is also 2D/40 fatigue. She now has no gems left and 96 fatigue.

A Helheim Hangdrott (2A1E3D) has 2 gems and 0 fatigue. He casts Raise Skeleton. Since he is 3D, and since he has 0 fatigue, the combat AI decides to cast it without gems. He is 1 level over, so the spell costs 1/2 normal, or 20 fatigue. Because his spellcasting enc is 8, he winds up with 28 fatigue. He casts Raise Dead the next round, and again does it without gems, winding up with 56 fatigue. The next round he casts again, but his fatigue is starting to creep up so he uses a death gem. Now he is effectively 3 levels over, so it costs 1/3 normal, rounded to 13, plus 8 for encumbrance = 21. He winds up with 77 fatigue and 1 gem left. (Waste of a death gem--it saved him 7 fatigue.) On the fourth round he casts again, using his final gem and winding up at (77 + 21 = 98) fatigue. His buddy the 3A3D Hangadrott, who started with only 1 death gem, also casts and winds up at (77 + 28 = 105) fatigue.

One moral of this story is that gems should not be given to (unscripted) high-pathlevel casters because they'll waste them prodigiously for diminishing benefit.

HTH,
-Max

[chrispedersen]

I understand the mechanism of fatigue reduction. Wasn't the question I was trying to ask.. although I do think you pointed out an interesting fact - going over 50 fatigue I believe induced the AI to use a gem.

Here's the test I need.

E2 Mage: Can he burn an e gem to cast Curse of stones = )

[Agema]

A gem used to raise a level to make it possible to cast the spell does NOT count towards the inherent gem cost of the spell.

An E2 mage can use 2 gems. Therefore it can cast an E3 spell that costs 1 gem to cast, using one to raise level, and the other to match the inherent spell cost.

The E2 mage cannot cast an E3 spell that requires 2 (or more) gems, because as the mage can only use 2 gems, it would spend one to raise path level, and then cannot meet the casting cost.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

I understand the mechanism of fatigue reduction. Wasn't the question I was trying to ask.. although I do think you pointed out an interesting fact - going over 50 fatigue I believe induced the AI to use a gem.

Here's the test I need.

E2 Mage: Can he burn an e gem to cast Curse of stones = )

IIRC Curse of Stones is 3E/300 fatigue, so the answer is no. However, an E1S1 mage like in your first post could do Summon Earthpower/Power of the Spheres/Curse of Stones. Without POTS it's a no-go.

-Max

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

IIRC Curse of Stones is 3E/300 fatigue, so the answer is no. However, an E1S1 mage like in your first post could do Summon Earthpower/Power of the Spheres/Curse of Stones. Without POTS it's a no-go.

How is an E1S1 any different than an E2?