Starting w/High Dominion vs. Using Temples

[Ynglaur]

Is there any point to starting with a high dominion, assuming that over a long game you can build enough temples to get the +1 Max Dominion per 5 Temples bonus? I understand the benefit to an early dominion push, etc. but assuming a large map, and the ability to throw up 45 temples before a serious dominion war, or perhaps using priests to hold off an enemy dominion push until temples are built, is there any long-term advantage to starting with higher dominion?

[PsiSoldier]

If you have a strategy that relies on recruiting Sacred units then starting with higher dominion will allow you to recruit more over time.

While your Candle count in provinces might max out at 10, the number of sacred units that you can recruit will continue to climb past 10 with whatever your starting dominion was +1 for every 5 temples. So starting with a higher dominion will still help you out there in that respect as well.

[Ynglaur]

Thanks! Does the Sacred limit impact the number of Knights of the Sepulchre received by Late Era Ermor (Ashen Empire)?

Also, after posting I thought of another question: can your pretender get +Awe from high dominion from temples, or is it based only on starting dominion?

[Dragar]

I'm pretty sure that the actual temple checks are based on your starting dominion? I think the increased dominion only applies to max candles per province and the max number of sacreds you can recruit, not the actual checks. Assuming that's right then all of those 45 temples are much stronger with high dominion

That aside it takes a long time to accumulate a lot of temples, the dominion push early is significant and will likely affect your expansion and scale spread - therefore high starting dominion's importance depends a lot on what your scales are like.

[Omnirizon]

+Awe is only obtained from starting dominion.

also, starting dominion is pretty much your dominion for the game with maybe +2. Building a ton of temples is labor and gold intensive (meaning you aren't expending those resources on other stuff), plus they are pretty easy to destroy (wasting your gold and labor and disabling your extra sacred-recruitablity).

you do not want to depend on temples for boosting base dominion.

[chrispedersen]

1. temple spread is based off of max original dominion - not modified dominion. This is general consensus, but not proven as far as I know. this can be a huge difference on how fast dominion will spread.

2. High initial dominion (9-10) will give awe to a pretender. Some fast initial expansion takes advantage of this.

3. Early game, if you are using positive scales, and have a relatively fast expansion, the ability to spread dominion can

a). Give you a + moral modifier. (Very useful for monkeys).
b). Spread your scales. For example if you are using a growth strategy, or a CBM strategy of Carrion woods, or Ashen empire's soul gate, or EA-Pangaea where pans spawn maenids in turmoil - you will want to spread your scales to maximize your free spawns, and/or economic advantage.

In other words - whats the point of paying for +3 order +3 growth if your dominion is only 1?

c. Some nations (Hinnom or Ashdod) have extremely expensive temples.

d. Water nations tend to have many land provinces adjacent to each water province. Water nations therefore need to have higher starting dominion than land nations, usually.

e. Some nations, such as mictlan, or van, may only build sacreds to the extent of their Dom score. High initial dominion is therefore required when playing a bless nation.

f. Finally, dominion can also occassionally be a useful attack. LE- Ermor, LE-Rylleh, EA-Niefle, MA-Ctis, MA Agartha all have a dominion effect (popdeath, popdeath + insanity, cold, miasma, extra golem hp) which can require your opponents to counter.

g. Ok - really finally- your god and prophet will have extra hp, mr, strength etc per point of dominion. Can make a huge difference when attacking with those units.

h. And lastly, even without f, you can project your dominion to deprive an opponent of his scales, or to at least keep his dominion at bay. For example, if you are luck +3, and you project your luck onto your opponents territory - it counts as luck -3 for him.

[Rookierookie]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

1. temple spread is based off of max original dominion - not modified dominion. This is general consensus, but not proven as far as I know. this can be a huge difference on how fast dominion will spread.

The in-game interface suggests otherwise, though my personal experience tends to concur. Playing with a low initial dominion makes SP quite a bit more challenging, because you'd have to constantly make effort to push back hostile dominion (particularly those with horrible scales or effects like Miasma), and you'd be almost obliged to build lots of temples just to protect your dominion.

[Ynglaur]

Thanks, everyone. All of the answers above make a lot of sense, and it sounds like starting with high dominion pays off in a lot of ways even on large maps with ample gold.

[WingedDog]

Besides all said above with low dominion you have a fair chance to become a victim of a dominion kill in the early game. Other
nation(s) seeing your low dominion graph could just dedicate themself to push their dominions to your death.

[Fate]

A user Max's comment:
"The specialness of the temple check is that it's one of the few temple checks that actually works as advertised in the manual, i.e. increases by 1 for every 5 temples built. Pretender and prophet checks work this way too IIRC, but most other temples just check against your starting Dominion."

To repost Endoperez:
"Dom2 thread in which Kristoffer says something similar to Max's first comment:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=22651

Dom3 thread in which Twan's test seemed to support the above, even though Kristoffer said that the manual should be right.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=32396"



Kristoffer has since said that temples only spreading by start dom is WaD, so the only "bug" is that the dominion panel claims your temples spread better than they do.

In game terms, this means that a start dom of <3 is almost entirely unfeasible, because any opponent with 6+ dominion can easily out-temple spam you (and each temple will be more than twice as effective).


As a side note, Juggernauts are probably affected by temples, because it auto-spreads like a pretender or a prophet, so assumably uses the same mechanic.

If you want to dom push, you might not want a full 10-dom because then you need to "fill" all your home provinces to or close to 10 before they will really start to spread (meaning it takes longer for your dominion to start overriding your opponent's). 6-8 might be more effective