Awe Question

LumenPlacidum · #1 January 8th, 2009, 05:37 PM

Hi. I recently picked up the game, and I have to say that this is very addictive. I haven't even tried to break into the multiplayer stuff yet, but I'm sure it'll consume my time. I have realized that before I can really figure out some of the effective combinations, I really need to know how some things work. Specifically, I don't understand Awe. Or rather, if I understand it correctly, then it's really not very useful.

With 10 dominion, it's possible to give a Virtue pretender Awe (+8). The manual said (I think) that the enemy must win a DRN+Morale check vs. my Awe+7 score. If a DRN is 2 6-sided dice (approximately, the average is somewhat higher because of its open-ended nature), then its expected value is somewhere above 7. If the typical unit has a morale of 10, then they have a score of 17 on a typical roll, versus my constant score of 15. That doesn't seem very useful. It only really seems POSSIBLE to fail that because I made it Awe (+8). If it were a lesser version of the ability, there'd be almost no chance of its working.

Am I misinterpreting the mechanics somewhere?

Thanks for your help.

Vanslime · #2 January 8th, 2009, 05:45 PM

The morale check is against 10 + value of awe, which would be 18 in this case.

...so yeah.

...even then, that still feels kind of weak. I must be missing something.

Dectilon · #3 January 8th, 2009, 05:54 PM

Isn't there a random number added to the roll as well? :/

Oh, and by the way: Yeah, Awe +8 IS pretty much immunity to moral-10 attackers

fungalreason · #4 January 8th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Yeah you're missing a few things. The check is not against just the awe bonus, but 10 plus the bonus from awe. (Page 56) So basically you take the average morale of 10, compare it against 18. You can go into probablilites for the rolls if you want to, but there's a chart that has it all worked out for you in the manual (Page 5). Just take the difference... -8 for a unit to attack your virtue in this example. You'll see it should only be around a 6% chance or so something will hit it.

Another that's been mentioned here somewhere is that fear works well in combination with awe. Fear essentially lowers morale of units in a certain radius and for a certain amount (based on the fear bonus). That makes it even harder for the units to pass that morale check. This makes even Awe +0 a very good ability for keeping units from attacking.

thejeff · #5 January 8th, 2009, 06:02 PM

I don't have the manual in front of me, but morale + roll vs 10+awe doesn't seem right to me.

If it worked that way Awe 0 would be almost useless without fear. Only morale 7 or less units could ever fail.

Is a roll added to both?

fungalreason · #6 January 8th, 2009, 06:05 PM

I may be wrong, but essentially both sides roll 2d6 (re-rolling sixes and adding them). Then the difference between the two values (morale and 10+awe) is added to the appropriate total.

The math for that is a little beyond me, so I just trust the chart. It seems to match the results I see in game.

thejeff · #7 January 8th, 2009, 06:07 PM

That makes sense to me.

Awe +0 should work about half the time against standard morale 10 troops, which matches my experience.

LumenPlacidum · #8 January 8th, 2009, 06:12 PM

I thought that table was for probabilities of comparing two DRN+adds rolls. In this case, isn't the awe score a static number? If the unit had a morale of 10, then it would be the same as a DRN being at least 8.

It seems to me that the probability of getting at most up to the score of 18 is 23/36, which is about 63%. So, the enemy with morale 10 would have a 37% chance of penetrating Awe (+8).

Of course, if it's actually that they have to beat DRN+10+Awe, then the chance is MUCH smaller, becoming what you said, fungalreason.

edit: well, you all responded while I worked this out... I guess my numbers no longer work.

JimMorrison · #9 January 8th, 2009, 06:38 PM

In nearly all cases in Dominions, unless otherwise specifically stated, a DRN is added to both sides.

It's an opposed roll, and opposed rolls are the wheel on which this game grinds.

So yes, it is Morale+DRN vs Awe+DRN. Awe+0 is decent, but really shines when you have Fear+5 or better (Fear is not an opposed roll, it just has a passive "effect"). Awe+7 with the Virtue (she is +7 at Dom10, +8 or greater requires forged items) is pretty incredible, and is very effective even without the Fear synergy, even against more "elite" units like heavy cavalry who have 12-13 Morale.

AreaOfEffect · #10 January 8th, 2009, 06:44 PM

Listen to Jim.