the "proper" scales for AIs

[Gandalf Parker]

The map commands for setting scales are free-floating. It includes the nation # so it will hit that nation whereever that nation lands.

It seems as if we could come up with a list of minimum scale settings to keep AIs from damaging themselves. Cold and Heat where applicable. Order where advisable. Magic for nations which can make the best use of it.

That way people could append it to any map in order to improve the AIs abit.

[HoneyBadger]

I've been hoping someone would get the ball rolling on this one...would it be possible, Gandalf, if we based this on two different scenarios? preferrably side by side: One normal, and one utilizing the better independents mod? I think they'd give wide enough differences as to be worth having separate values.

[Endoperez]

Minimum of Growth 1 for races with lots of old recruitable mages:
EA/MA Abysia, MA Man etc etc. I don't know how many of these there are.

Minimum of Misfortune 2 for all nations. Misfortune 3 brings too many bad events the AI can't cope with.

[HoneyBadger]

I would say minimum Misfortune 0 or at most 1. Anything to cut down on the chance to lose a temple or lab in the first 30 turns. That's devastating enough for me, let alone the AI.

[NTJedi]

The scales can vary slightly for each AI nation depending on its theme, yet death scales, misfortune scales, and chaos scales seem to do the most damage to AI opponents.

[HoneyBadger]

One thing that should be considered is scales that players would pick that might not seem otherwise intuitive: eg Unrest3/Luck3 for greater chance of good events, and Drain 2, for the extra free points.

Also, along with better independents, thoughts on CBM should be considered too, since that's a common enough mod, and the scales there work differently.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well I would like to get a very tiny file. Just the absolute killer-scale (one, maybe two) for the nations which actually seem to die from it.

Then one for general recommendations. 3 or 4 scales to each nation.

The mods I dont play with so whether or not we need one for certain mods I leave up to others.

They can all be posted here. We can find them and cut-n-paste them as we need them. There is A LOT that we can do to improve the AIs. Waiting for Johan to do it is looking more and more like a waste of good whining.

[Sombre]

So if you set up nations with scales in the map, does that override what is picked at the start? Is it factored into the available pretender points? Does it effect human controlled nations?

[Gandalf Parker]

It does affect human controlled. At least in desktop games.

It might have different results in an MP or hosted game. Ive gotten some map commands to act differently if I create it as a network game on my machine then open Dom3 again to access the 127.0.0.1 network and play it. I think its because in desktop mode you choose the map, and then add the players. In server mode you add the players, and then choose the map.

I wanted to test whether or not I could abuse scales by using all my points on an SC pretender and allow the map commands to give me kickass scales. But someone else tested it and said it kicked in the cheat-protection.

[Edi]

Yes, it triggers the cheat detection.

All the map commands that affect the pretender (dominionstr, scale commands and the god command that assigns pretender chassis) are independent of each other, but if the sum total of points from player-chosen chassis, scale commands in map file and magic and other stuff goes over the limit, cheat detection is triggered.

It is untested whether a dormant or imprisoned pretender with absured scales would trigger it since the god does not appear on the map at the beginning of the game. Someone could take a stab at that, but I've really got to hit the sack now...

This info will be in the new map manual.