British OOB / 25pdr AT gun

[Shan]

I am trying to play the Brits for the first time, in North Africa '41... quite tough if you are used to playing Germans or at least Russians with some real decent weapons...

Anyways - the only weapon to easily kill German tanks at the time, the 25pdr., of which I bought both arty + AT versions, doesn't work properly - they got this Sabot loadout, alright, but seem to fire only HE at German tanks!
They are correctly classes as heavy AT guns + as howitzers - this works fine with other nation's guns of the type to I wonder what's wrong with the Brits? Is it probably because those guns dont know that SABOT is for hard targets' Other arty usually has HEAT or AP for emergency use against tanks... but then, the AT guns you find usually got HE, AP and a few SABOT as well and I never had a German Pak fire HE at a tank unless they ran out of all other ammo! I also thought it might be because some tanks carry tank-riding infantry - but then I fired at tanks where I made sure no inf is carried... same result... by now I got a crowd of some 20 PzIII pinned under heavy HE fire but if I can't teach my gunners then I'll die...
I am now half-way through a battle and have almost used up my HE rounds, I hope then they will finally bother to use the SABOTs if they're still alive...

I'm sure others must've notices this problem as well...

Possible solution: if the SABOT ammo is the root of ther problem - change the SABOT to AP, with according characteristics of the weapon changed as well - should work that way, right?

[PatG]

What ranges were you firing at? Sabot performance drops off rapidly with range. If you were shooting at distant tanks, HE might well have been the better option.

[Shan]

I guess must've been around 1000m - I'll check when I reload the savegame at home. Waould be good to know the range limits before opening fire though. I know about these performance drops in RL but I didnt realize that the game also models them - well if that is the case and the ammo of the 25pounder represents RL correctly which I would assume, then I'm fine with it. You just don't get anywhere near the performance of an '88 - that's clear---

[DRG]

PatG said:
What ranges were you firing at? Sabot performance drops off rapidly with range. If you were shooting at distant tanks, HE might well have been the better option.

That is correct. The rounds are picked by the game based on which one has a better chance of doing damage and "damage" could mean hoping for a disablement rather than an outright kill.

In some cases that means weapons like 25 pounders fire will HE at armoured targets because the HE has a better chance of doing something worthwhile at that range. Under 1100 yards the 25 pdr in the AT role will fire Sabot at armoured targets. It's a simple test to set up in the editor.

Don

[Shan]

Thanks for the reply, meanwhile I tested it and found it's exactly as you're saying. Doesn't really make me happier with that weapon but anyways... the British OOB requires different tactics...

[Mobhack]

Why not look at the gun's data?. It is available right there in the info screens for you to read, after all. See the Game Guide, "Encyclopaedia screen" link, in the second page of info's description, where it describes the values. (The unit info screen uses the same layout as the Encyclopaedia).

It uses the sabot round for its AP round. Sabot max range is 24 hexes, so it will fire shot to about 24 hexes, or 1200 metres. Naturally, as penetration falls with range, at the far end the penetration may be too low to make the shot worthwhile, and the game is set up to use HE (if available) in that case (It may get a track disabling hit).

Cheers
Andy

[PanzerBob]

Shan,

Utilizing 25pdrs as AT, does require some craftiness on the commanders part. But, if you can get the German forces into a 600 to 800m killzone, you'll find a lot of smokin' wreckage.

I've done this in the past in the defence, setting two horseshoe shaped killzones with 6 guns per ambush. I set all my forces to ZERO range and had everybody hold fire until a good part of the German panzer were in one of the killzones and then had everybody open up. I hosed down all the panzers first with MG's making sure they buttoned up, then let the 25pdrs have their way. The results were excellent with most of the few survivors retreating. Only damage to my guns was from artillery called down too late for the attacking force.

It's a Rommel type trap in reverse. Trick being keeping your forces from reacting until you are ready, and making the most shots yourself.

Good Hunting,

[Cross]

I mostly PBEM as the British, and I regularly beat up the Germans.

If you choose carefully the Brits have some excellent equipment, and the 25 Pdr. is a lovely versatile piece of kit, which is well modelled in this game.

Never go into battle without it...

But as PanzerBob said, how you use it is important.

[chuckfourth]

Hi
There is an interesting apect to this deployment of the divisional artillery as AT guns because of the arrival of Rommels panzer division. The parcelling out of all the 25 pdrs to the infantry as AT guns meant that the british fought with no divisional artillery for quite some time.
In game you shouldnt be able to buy any 25 pdr bateries, for Nth africa anyway, and the guns should only be available as direct fire weapons ie the in-direct fire control systems etc had been dismantled.
As you might the imagine lack of divisional artillery was a major tacticle problem.
Best Regards Chuck.

[Marek_Tucan]

There is simple solution to this: don't buy it. And if you are bothered by AI using it, modify the OOB to suit you well. Just don't forget then to give Germany 1/4 purchase points compared to enemy