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  #1  
Old May 25th, 2007, 04:54 AM
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Jazzepi Jazzepi is offline
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Default Research Cost

Does anyone know where that post is that outlined how much research it took to get to certain levels on normal? I'm trying to put together a strategy, and I'd like to know!

Jazzepi
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  #2  
Old May 25th, 2007, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Research Cost

Search for my posts and the value 160, that should get you the thread you need.
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  #3  
Old May 25th, 2007, 04:59 AM

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Default Re: Research Cost

IIRC the formula is fibonazzi's series -like cost(level n) = cost(level n-1) + cost(level n-2). On normal research it's 40, 60, 100, 160, 260, 420 and so on.

If I remember correctly, that is.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 03:00 PM

MaxWilson MaxWilson is offline
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Default Re: Research Cost

Cumulative costs on normal:

Level: RP
1: 40
2: 100
3: 200
4: 360
5: 620
6: 1040
7: 1720
8: 2820
9: 4600

Thanks to Edi for spotting the pattern!

-Max
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  #5  
Old May 25th, 2007, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: Research Cost

Quoted from my earlier post:

Quote:
Edi said:
Fibonacci series.

So, it'd be
  • Easy: 20, 40, 60, 100, 160, 260, 420, 680, 1100, aggregate total 2840
  • Normal: 40, 60, 100, 160, 260, 420, 680, 1100, 1780, aggregate total 4600
  • Hard: 60, 100, 160, 260, 420, 680, 1100, 1780, 2880, aggregate total 7440
  • Very Hard: 100, 160, 260, 420, 680, 1100, 1780, 2880, 4660, aggregate total 12040

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  #6  
Old May 25th, 2007, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Research Cost

This should be in the FAQ, if it isn't already.

Jazzepi
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  #7  
Old June 11th, 2007, 09:16 PM

Lazy_Perfectionist Lazy_Perfectionist is offline
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Default Re: Research Cost

Mathy Math time.

Intro:
How can you predict when a research goal will be completed?
The simplest, yet tedious method is simply adding up each turns research total. But what if you're in a hurry to see whether you can reach construction four by the end of the first year (you can, on standard), and what exactly that magic scale buys you.

Blather/background:
I'll leave the mathematical theory behind it for later, and throw you a quick formula you can use for an estimation based on the idea that each turn, you recruit a mage in your capital and dedicate him to research. Obviously, there are ways to speed and slow this down, but this'll give you a clear idea what you can achieve. The formula I give here becomes obsolete after you set up secondary research centers, or diversify your commander recruits, but this is a good yardstick for the first year. Heck, one time I found two libraries (Sages) within a few provinces in my capital. Needless to say, research climbed dramatically.

ESTIMATE HERE:
sqrt(aggregate research total for level x 2 / Research points of mage)

EXAMPLE HERE:
To give an example, I'm playing MA Agartha on a standard game with three magic scales, for +2 to research. My Golem Crafters cost 200 gold, and with bonus, 8 rp each.

To research construction four (items), or enchantment 4(Enliven Sentinels), I need (40+60+100+160) or 360 Research Points. I double that, to 720, and divide by 8, my research points per Golem Crafter, in this game). That results in 90. I enter that in my calculator and press sqrt. The square root of ninety is ~9.4. I round that up to ten. I can forge my first greater magic item 10 turns after my first mage starts recruiting.

If I'd gone with no magic scales, and Earth Readers, I would need sqrt(720/3) or 16 turns.

I forget the name of the exact mathematical formula- correct me if I get anything wrong. Feel free to correct me with proper terminology too, or point out a hideous error. But the basic mathematical theory is that you can predict the sum of a series of numbers (linear growth) by multiplying the average of all the numbers times the number of terms in the series. In the einstein story, he was asked to provide the sum of all numbers from one to a hundred. The teacher expected everyone to add them all up, but he answered immediately.

How did he do it? He took the average of the first and last term, and multiplied it by the number of terms in the sequence. I'm explaining this so you can figure out when your research will complete with say, a great sage.

It'd be wonderful if someone turned up a math webpage that described this all accurately, and clearly but you'll have to settle for me ATM.

On a smaller scale of 1 to 10
(1+10)/2*10= 55
1+2+3=6
4+5+6=15
7+8+9+10=34
6+13+34 = 55

If we're using our Pretender as a researcher, our first term is the amount of RP he contributes, and we start on turn one. If we're using just mages as researchers, we start on turn two. And our first term is the amount of RP they contribute. We'll go with the latter.

n is the number of terms in the sequence, or the number of turns since our first mage starts researching till the time the goal is reached.

t1 = first term, 8 RP of Golem Crafter
tn = last term, 8xn
ARG = Aggregate research goal, or 360 in this example

the basic formula.
(t1+tn)/2 * n = ARG

pumping in what we know...
(8+8n)/2 * n = 360

Trying to isolate n, the unknown variable, we multiply both sides by two.
(8+8n)*n = 720
We now multiply that out
8n+8n^2 = 720
We now divide both sides by 8.
n+n^2 = 90

We can pump various turns into the variable n for a precise answer, but since this game is filled with plenty of variables, an estimate is all we really want. So, we just pump the right half into a calculator and press square root. We then round up to the nearest ones place.

Now, there's all sorts of things you can do if you really want to be an aggressive researcher, that throw this out the window, but some of them, like another library and/or fortress just require two series.

All in all, the point of this is simply to provide a measuring stick to weigh your progress against that critical first year, and decide how aggressively you need to recruit mages, what it will cost you, and what you do with them. And what's practically achievable. I don't actually use this formula during a game, but in play by email you have all the time to micro you want.

I've been yapping all this time, but its easier than being concise. Hope you've found this of some use. Let me know if you appreciate it, or it put you to sleep.
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  #8  
Old June 12th, 2007, 01:53 AM

atul atul is offline
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Default Re: Research Cost

L_P, you're probably thinking about arithmetic series.

And Wikipedia attributes your story to Carl F. Gauss.

Oh, and when you count n for real (n = (-1+sqrt(1+4*90))/2) it's 9. Without decimals.
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  #9  
Old June 12th, 2007, 02:31 AM

Lazy_Perfectionist Lazy_Perfectionist is offline
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Default Re: Research Cost

Well... I knew I was rusty... but did I get the jist of it right?
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  #10  
Old June 12th, 2007, 03:20 AM

atul atul is offline
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Default Re: Research Cost

You just honoured your nick and got a bit lazy while writing a lot of stuff. And besides you say yourself you are doing things the wrong way when you do it, which is always good.

Anyway, larger the n the more the squared term dominates, but with early levels it's probably better to use the exact form. Which is like secondary school material. In general a*x^2 + b*x + c = 0 => x = (-b +-sqrt(b^2 - 4*a*c))/(2*a) if someone doesn't remember anymore. (Really hope I got that right)
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