Bidding System - Specifics

[DrPraetorious]

Each player starts with 40,000 population in their capital. They then bid population on (number of players) nations. They cannot bid the same amount on two different nations. The bidding is entirely secret between the different players.

The highest bid is assigned to the nation chosen, one at a time, until everyone is assigned to a nation.

In the event that the highest bid is a tie, if it is for two different nations, no problem.

If the highest bid is a tie and it is for the same nation, ties are settled thusly:

total all bids for the next-choice nation of each of the competitors (or the nation after that if they are the same.) The player whose second choice nation has a lower total bid wins the tie. In the event that this is also a tie, move on to the next choice for each player. A choice of "no nation" (because you ran out) has an infinite bid. If the tie still cannot be resolved, resolve it randomly, and the loser wins all ties and pays only 75% for all their remaining bids.

Now, total the bids (including unused bids) on all the nations that were assigned. "Rank" the nations by *increasing* value of total bid. In the event of a tie, all nations have the higher rank.

Nations ranked 1 through (number of players / 2, rounded down) get to pick prizes from the following list. The player ranked 1 gets to make (number of players / 2, rounded up) selections, rank (n+1) makes 1 fewer selections than rank (n).

Prizes:
* Additional national troops equal to 50% of your starting army strength. For every two times you take this, you also get an additional starting commander (not scout).
* Surprise me! You get an additional scout, with randomequip 4.
* Capital upgrade. Increase the admin of your capital by 5%. You can pick any fortress that fits the bill. Max admin possible is 60%.
* Additional capital site: your capital can contain either an Iron Mine, or a site of your choice with a gem income of 1 and no other effects. You obviously can't have more than 4 sites in your capital.

EXAMPLE 4 player bids:

DrPraetorious bids:
Niefelheim 12000
Abyssia 5001
Sauromatia 5000
Arcoscephale 4999

Llamabeast bids:
Sauromatia 1204
Niefelheim 1203
Caelum 1202
Lanka 1201

Tyrant bids:
R'lyeh 4
Caelum 3
Helheim 2
C'tis 1

JayThomas bids:
R'lyeh 1101
Helheim 1100
T'ien Ch'i 1099
Lanka 1098

Firstly, I get Niefelheim with my bid of 12,000. Total bids on niefelheim are 13,303.
Then, Llamabeast gets Sauromatia with his bid of 1204. total bids on Sauromatia are 6,204.
JayThaoms gets R'lyeh with 1,101. Total bids on R'lyeh are 1,105.
Finally, Tyrant gets Caelum with his bid of 3. Total bids on Caelum are 1,205.

JayThomas has the lowest total bid, so he gets two prizes. Tyrant has the second lowest total bid, so he gets one prize. Neither I nor Llamabeast get any prizes.

The system is *meant* to be used in large games, with >9 players. This way, someone might take Marverni, hoping to get a population of 39,996 and five prizes (which would be quite a plum, potentially.)

Does this seem fair to everyone?

[Shadohfrog]

You lost me. I'll have to read this again after more caffeine. Why is JayThomas a lower total bid than Tyrant. Are your calculations right, or am I just exceptionally slow today ?

[vfb]

Total pop bid on R'lyeh is 1,105 (=1,101+4) <-- JayThomas won R'lyeh.

Total pop bid on Caelum is 1,205 (=3+1202) <-- Tyrant won Caelum.

1105 < 1205 so JayThomas has the lowest total bid.

What starting population would Niefelheim have? 28000, or 13000? (Do you pay just your bid for the nation you won, or the sum or your bids?)

[LoloMo]

So if there are 10 nations, each player has to bid for 10 nations, he can not just bid for one nation?

[DrPraetorious]

wfb - Niefelheim would have a population of 28000 (you only pay the bid that actually goes through.)

LoloMo - you absolutely must bid for 10 nations. You could bid something like:

nationA 12,000
nationB 9
nationC 8
...
nationJ 1

Note that since you only pay the winning bid, and you want the total bids for opponent's nations to be high, it is to your advantage to bid something on all nine nations, provided you actually do get your first choice.

[LoloMo]

Seems like a workable system. The bidding process is like a game unto itself, each bidder has to think really carefully.

When do we test this out? =)

[LoloMo]

What happens if a player bids the highest for say 3 nations?

[Micah]

Lolo-

He gets the one he bid the most on (and he can't bid the same amount on 2 nations).

My question is what do you do about LE Ermor? They don't really care much about their capital's population.

Likewise, some resource-intensive nations might get skewed, since you have to rely on other people bidding low to get the iron mine bonus, which won't happen if people all decide to bid fairly high on, say, MA Ulm, realizing that they can take a lower gold:resource ratio and do fine...the person that ends up with them will end up in a bad spot not because people all thoght Ulm was awesome enough to overcome, but because they thought they'd get some bonuses to compensate for it being crappy.

Finally, people tend to have nation preferences that are independant of balance. Some people simply don't want to play, say, LE Rlyeh because they don't like the feel of it, which again will skew the bidding, giving the person that does end up with it a big boost since everyone else bid low to avoid getting it.

I like the idea a lot, and I know every system has flaws, so I'm not trying to nitpick, I'm just pointing out what I see as potential problems so that maybe someone can come up with a tweak to fix them, or just tell me I'm being overly anal. =)

[LoloMo]

Micah, I think if lots of people bid high on MA Ulm in your example, then it probably means Ulm with the iron mine bonus is pretty much in demand.

To prevent extreme imbalances due to LE Rlyeh theme unpopularity for example, a suggestion would be to have a second or third round of bidding, where you can adjust your bid upwards (upwards only never downwards, and by a minimum of 30% higher than the winning bid).

The more rounds of bidding the lower the minimum bid increase can be. But a lot of work to tally it though unless it is automated.

Edit: Can also limit the second and successive bidding rounds to submitting only one increased bid per player.

[Velusion]

In the past I've proposed a bidding system based on Pretender Points - as they are worth about the same to every nation - were population might not be.

I've always liked the idea of a bidding system though.