Difficult AI opponents?

Weson102 · #1 June 17th, 2001, 07:33 AM

What original AI's make for a difficult opponent?

What about AI's that have been developed by others?

I'm using TDM-Mod_1.71 to improve the difficulty, but haven't found any aggressive
challenging race. CueCappa and Sergetti have been some competition.

capnq · #2 June 17th, 2001, 05:57 PM

In one of my games, the original Xi-Chung declared war immediately after first contact, and it took me years of game time to catch up with their technology and gain the upper hand.

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Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Omega · #3 June 17th, 2001, 06:18 PM

There are no difficult AI opponents. Some of the AI mods are pretty good, but they are unable to overcome the shortcomings in the core AI of the program.

rdouglass · #4 June 17th, 2001, 08:17 PM

Give the AI a bonus. Yes, I know, that gives the AI some cheating room, but it does help making the AI more challenging. Another thing that I do to help is set up the game for 5000 racial points but I use only 2000. You have to dicipline yourself to do it at setup, but it does make the AI significantly more of a challenge up thru mid-game.

raynor · #5 June 17th, 2001, 09:49 PM

Play a medium bonus game. Give the AI 5000 racial points but don't use any. Don't use mines. Don't use Stellar Manipulation. Fight all your battles in strategic mode instead of tactical. Don't do any trades with the AI. If the game is still too easy, don't use any units at all. When you attack, use at most half your forces in one mass. At the end of every turn, leave your forces in orbit around a planet you just captured or destroyed. If your forces are just one sector away from the planet, the enemy forces might not engage you. Eliminate black holes from your galaxy maps. My intuition says you should probably remove nebulas as well.

If the AI is still too easy, you might try disallowing all treaties between yourself and the AI. Another idea is to start out with 10 planets. Then, once the game has started, take control of a neutral race.

IMHO, the AI seems much weaker in larger galaxies than in smaller ones. If you have enough time to develop several systems before you encounter the AI, you will almost certainly win. But if your home system borders his, then you will be in for a greater challenge. As poor as the AI is, if you play a high bonus game and have only two warp points leading from your home system and both those warp points lead to AI home systems, I don't think you are going to win the game.

Definitely get the TDM ModPack. Malfador is wisely incorporating the ingenious AI improvements developed by the talented Daynarr, Mephisto, Tampa_Gamer and others.

But as others have stated time and again, there really isn't any AI for the game. Instead, SEIV just attempts to 'mimic' semi-intelligent behaviour while playing 'at' the game rather than actually playing it. The AI doesn't play to win. Rather, it just plays so as to simulate intelligent behaviour. The SEIV AI is much less the AI of a chess program than the equivalent of an Eliza-like computer psychiatrist designed to fool you into think there is some human intelligence behind its decisions.

Weson102 · #6 June 17th, 2001, 10:50 PM

Your right. I use the TDM mod and do a most of items you listed, but the results are not satisfactory. If the AI is not there it is like playing a chess match with yourself.

Maybe the game is just too complicated to have a good AI.

geoschmo · #7 June 17th, 2001, 11:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Weson102:
Maybe the game is just too complicated to have a good AI.

I wouldn't go that far. But it is very likely too complicated for one person working part time to handle.

Consider how many years it took to design a competent computer program that could beat a good chess player. I'm not even talking about Deep Blue here. Just to get to the point of the better than average player took years, and that was with a lot of people working on it.

SE4 just has too many variables. That's not too say it can't be done. Just that we may have to wait a while.

Geo

Weson102 · #8 June 18th, 2001, 12:14 AM

'SE4 just has too many variables. That's not too say it can't be done. Just that we may have to wait a while.'
Geo[/b][/quote]

When you say 'we may have to wait a while' does that mean a month or two ... a year...within my life time.
I'm getting up there in age, the bones creak,
the minds going, and Viagra is now an option maybe even a necessity.

[This message has been edited by Weson102 (edited 17 June 2001).]

Beck · #9 June 18th, 2001, 12:30 AM

Well, I think it will be a lot longer than a month or two, an intelligent AI has been computer gaming's holy grail for over 30 years. To think that a tweak here and there is going to change that is a mistake. And its not Aaron, its the state of the entire industry in regard to AI. To me the whole point of gaming is the interaction with other humans. To the extent there is an adequate AI provides a means for learning the game and testing strategies and tactics to try in a game against humans. Do we have that, I think so, particularly with the efforts the modders have produced.

dogscoff · #10 June 18th, 2001, 11:52 AM

QUOTE:Play a medium bonus game. Give the AI 5000 racial points but don't use any. Don't use mines. Don't use Stellar Manipulation. Fight all your battles in strategic mode instead of tactical. Don't do any trades
<snip>
with 10 planets. Then, once the game has started, take control of a neutral race.
/QUOTE:

You might also try the following to make the game more challenging: Play blindfolded, only colonise systems with the letter "p" in their names, deny yourself sleep for 48 hours then play heavy metal music whilst taking your turns, tell your wife / girlfriend that SEIV is really an interface for a singles sex chat website, smear your keyboard in tuna paste and then encourage a cat onto your desk while you play, rewire your computer to randomly reset every 5-10 minutes, every time you build a ship force yourself go to the window and shout its name at full volume, configure your screesaver to display porn every time an AI glasses one of your planets, hook yourself up to a 3000 volt nipple clamp which triggers every time you win a battle... The possibilitis are endless. A challenging AI game is easy to achieve if you're just disciplind enough...

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"Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... oooh, it's all too much for me. "