AP rounds fired by arty

loktarr · #1 October 22nd, 2006, 07:55 PM

I just finished to play 'Lybia again' and it makes me ask a question about the 'AP' shells fired by arty...
It is very efficient against infantry, very very efficient against low armored target, but seems to be unefficient against soft vehicles like trucks.

I remarked it because I was trying to kill some truck arty and it didn't work at all...
I made some check after that and it was a confirmation of the previous...
So, is it normal? And what are 'AP' ammo for?
I suppose it's a mix of bomblet and anti tank ammo...

thatguy96 · #2 October 22nd, 2006, 08:04 PM

AP ammo for indirect fire units is a cluster munition round. Cluster munitions are usually more effective against exposed and unarmored targets unless they are purpose built to defeat armor. The majority of artillery launched cluster munitions are not, though there are ones designed to be more effective against armor.

pdoktar · #3 October 23rd, 2006, 05:52 AM

Oh.. I thought all Western cluster bomblets in artillery shells had a small shaped charge warhead to make them kinda dual purpose..?

serg3d · #4 October 23rd, 2006, 06:23 AM

Hmm I thought in-game cluster munition is not effective against infantry. Against tank, even heavily armored like Leclerc and Leopard it is very effective. I yhink I havn't seen it affect infantry ...

thatguy96 · #5 October 23rd, 2006, 09:28 AM

Maybe I've got it backwards, but I seem to remember artillery launched CMs being relatively effective against infantry.

As for artillery launched CM's intended targets, you're right too, that most of the modern ones are dual purpose in nature. Aircraft CMs follow more what I was talking about historically, though artillery launched CMs were initially what I said too...but that was 30 years ago. The development generally seems to have been toward dual purpose CMs over the last two decades or so.

PlasmaKrab · #6 October 23rd, 2006, 02:09 PM

If you look at the orbats, you'll see that the AP (cluster) rounds tend to have both kill and penetration in various ratios, meaning that most are effective against both infantry and armor.
AFAIK these cluster weapons (both artillery and air) are meant to be more effective against infantry on the move and/or on open terrain, while basic HE shells work better against entrenched infantry.

loktarr · #7 October 27th, 2006, 01:28 PM

What seems to me very funny is the resistance of unarmored vehicles against this type of ammo.
Just try with two guns, one firing on APC and one on trucks...
The result is so odd...

serg3d · #8 October 27th, 2006, 01:51 PM

It seems to me AP cluster kill soft vehicles perfectly well. One hit and vehicle killed. On the other hand on the armor it making not-penetrating ding sometimes.

loktarr · #9 October 27th, 2006, 06:44 PM

Made some test (I love doing tests with SPMBT...):
the poor English were the target, firing unit was US paladin.
Target were grouped by 8 (vehicles or team), with two paladin firing at each target group. Target were immobile...
Here are the losses ratio[%], with (20)= roof anti-heat armor:
Challenger 2 (20) [50%]
Warrior II (5) [90%]
Spartan (1) [90%]
LandRover (0) [35%]
Medium Truck (0) [35%]
Infantery (-) [15%]

(I got these figures after 5 tests)
I may have the reason why there is a lowest ratio of destroyed unarmored vehicle: the ammo are AP and it seem that unarmored vehicle are easily destroyed by HE but not by
AP...
A test with MRL confirms it: for MRL cluster ammo are HE ammo and it's able to destroy easily unarmored vehicles...
Does anybody know more about how SP deals with unarmored vehicles hit by AP rounds?

PlasmaKrab · #10 October 28th, 2006, 04:34 AM

I didn't do any test on that, but I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't smothing related to the way soft vehicles are dealt damage (any damage).

Try firing against trucks or such with a tank or any heavy direct-fire weapon, and you'll have chances of seeing the truck losing crew members, but still technically running between two shots.

Just my 2c, I don't know if there is any relation with what you saw. If there is, you may want to check non-lethal damage done to the trucks, maybe several of them are technically "ready" but have suffered several damage points.

P.S. just another idea popping up: how about unit size? Tanks tend to have a high size ratio, and seeing how cluster rounds work, I'd find totally logical that 'smaller' units get less hits.