About intel in se5

[dogscoff]

Hey ho.

Haven't actually had a chance to download the demo yet, so maybe someone here can help.

Can anyone tell me whether se5's intel is divided into 'projects' like se4? In other words, am I going to have to go through the wiki and divide each project entry into two? For example splitting 'Crew Insurrection' into 'Crew Insurrection (SEIV)' and 'Crew Insurrection (SEV)'

[Captain Kwok]

You pick a focus area only and so do not have direct control over which projects are happening. They are picked randomally and more-or-less match the projects that were in SE:IV. Other than that the mechanics work the same - so I think it's a step backwards myself.

[dogscoff]

So the old projects are still there, you just don't have any direct control over which ones get carried out. That means I'm going to have to split all the entires doesn't it?

Bugger.

As for se5... Bit of an annoyance that you can't influence what project gets undertaken - even if you had a 'priority' list that you assign to agents or something, that weights the random-selection code to make items near the top of the list more likely to be carried out than others.

I assume it also means you can't target specific planets and ships for your mischief. Maybe Malfador ought to tweak this system a little bit before release of the full game. Perhaps, along with the list of priority projects, there could be a list of priority targets, or even priority star-systems. It still offers no guarantees, and you may end up hitting an enemy ship with 'ship bomb' when you wanted 'crew insurrection' but at least the player would get some degree of control.

PS: Thanks Kwok =-)

[Q]

It seems MM made the unsatisfactory intel system of SE IV worse!
That is not exactely what I would call a progress.

[StarShadow]

I agree. Intel just doesn't seem like a good area to introduce randomness. By making the Intel missions random, it actually sucks all the strategy out of it. In SEIV, if I know of a (enemy)ship that is heading to an area where I really don't want it to be, I can bomb it, or do any number of other fun/nasty things to it through intel. In SEV all I can do is switch to Espionage-Ship, and just hope that something eventually happens to the ship. Unless Intel is changed(or modded to be like, or better than, SEIV) I think I'll just stick to Intel-Defense and completely ignore the rest.

[Suicide Junkie]

As I understand it, it is like SE3's system, with finer-grained focus options.

Not letting players choose specific projects and targets, while being a reduction in control, is IMO a gameplay improvement.

Se3's system wasn't too bad; how often did intel have to be outlawed?
Se4's system is not that good; how often do we ever play a PBW game with intel enabled? Even heavily modded, it just dosen't work well.


It might be ok if the cost of a targeted project was 10x higher than normal, random "targets of opportunity".

[StarShadow]

Reducing the strategic depth of the game is an improvement? I just don't understand that one. In any case, if Intel is so overpowered/unbalanced maybe it should be eliminated completely (or at least disabled by default). Eliminating/disabling it, seems better to me than completely nerfing it.

[Suicide Junkie]

I'm saying that gameplay is improved by having an SE3 style system over what amounts to nothing thanks to being always disabled.

I am also saying that I suspect specific target control could be made playable if it had a sufficient cost premium.
Random targets of opportunity, which present themselves as easy opportunities... vs a focussed effort against a particular target which probably won't be making itself easy to hit.

For example, planting random bombs could be done by slipping some rigged weapons into a resupply depot's ordnance stocks. Bombing a specific ship right now is much harder.

[Captain Kwok]

Some valid points SJ.

There's also some problems with project costs and effects with stock intel as well. For example, the Delete Research project will subtract 10,000,000 points from a target's project - rather than just set it back to 0, it actually goes like -10,000,000 points and then takes 200 years to research! Another example is that planet rebellion only costs 5,000 intel points... nor that the effect amounts for some projects are just too high - easily wiping out the resource stores of a player in the early game.

[Kana]

Captain Kwok said:
There's also some problems with project costs and effects with stock intel as well. For example, the Delete Research project will subtract 10,000,000 points from a target's project - rather than just set it back to 0, it actually goes like -10,000,000 points and then takes 200 years to research! Another example is that planet rebellion only costs 5,000 intel points... nor that the effect amounts for some projects are just too high - easily wiping out the resource stores of a player in the early game.

Couldnt these be considered bugs?