Question about Russian/Soviet vehicles

mr_clark · #1 September 6th, 2006, 05:23 PM

I am just playing a Russia vs China game in 2008 and I have come about the following problem:
I had purchased a platoon of Spetsnaz to go with my assault force and now planned to buy transport for them. I was (a little) astonished to find out that the Spetsnaz squads couldn't be transported the whole BMD series and the modern light APCs as the GAZ-3937. Evidently it's because the vehicles have only a carry capacity of 106 opposite to the 109 of the BTRs and the BMPs.

My question now is whether this is intentionally so and why, especially the BMP/BMD which had been designed for the same amount of troops to be transported, this difference is given.
(My magazine states that:"Der BMD tr�gt neben seiner Hauptbewaffnung auch einen Luftlandezug, der im Innenraum wie beim BMP platziert ist." English:"The BMD carries next to it's main armament also an airborne squad, that is seated like in the BMP")
As far as the old GDR military-magazines I have state the BMP to carry 7+crew while the BTR carries 8+crew, I can't really understand the distinction made between BMP and BMD and none between BMP and BTR.
Additionally globalsecurtiy.org states that "The seating capacity of GAZ-3937 is 10 people." with a crew of 2 or even just a driver as in the game (1 man crew) that leaves at least the same room for troops as the BMP, it will most likely surpass it.

MarkSheppard · #2 September 6th, 2006, 05:52 PM

Stated and actual capabilities are really a lot different. Sure, you COULD stuff an infantry squad of seven men plus their weapons, ATGMS, etc into a BMD, but they would have no room and probably couldn't breathe.

baggypants · #3 September 7th, 2006, 01:16 AM

Post deleted by baggypants

mr_clark · #4 September 7th, 2006, 05:46 AM

Yeah I know the BMD being actually smaller then the BMP.

I've done a little more checking on it and it seems that indeed the 'full' 7 men infantry complement was not intended to be used as an operational concept...
But then therwe remains the question that the GAZ-3937 should be able to carry at least the same number of Infantry as the BTR, which can carry more then the BMP. Nevertheless the BMP and BTR have the same carry cap, and the GAZ-3937 has a smaller one.
And if there is no big deal about the difference between BMP and BTR then wehy is it made between BMP and BMD?

PlasmaKrab · #5 September 7th, 2006, 06:05 AM

As far as I know, the BMP and BTR units had similar operational concepts, in other words, both vehicles could have been swapped in mechanized units without modifying the squads.
The BTRs were more mobile, cheaper and had more amphibious capacity.

I've just checked the default game OOBs, and it turns out that both BTRs and BMPs have a carry capacity of 109, which is identical if optimistic.
Though, the BMPs all have a crew of 2 (driver and gunner), which reflects the fact that the squad leader/ vehicle commander is supposed to dismount with the squad. I don't know if that is coherent with Russian doctrine, but it makes sense as far as the in-game formations are concerned (platoon leader is always an infantry unit).
In comparison, the BTRs have a crew of 3, regardless of a lighter weapon system, which means that the commander stays on board for some reason, and that in theory, the vehicle carries one person more.

As to the Vodnik having a capacity of 6 men, I couldn't comment on that. Maybe it's supposed to reflect the reduced capacity of a vehicle beefed up for airdrop and supporting a para section? Or to keep in tune with the BMDs?
These vehicles are modular, so you could probably go for larger troop-carrier boxes and reach the BTR-Ds 110.

pdoktar · #6 September 11th, 2006, 05:28 AM

I�ve been riding both BMP-1 and CV-90, guess which was more comfortable and offered more "personal space" for the poor grunts with their rifles, a PKM, 4 LAWs, and an occasional APILAS, maybe a few Anti-Tank mines also.

It is difficult to stuff 7 soldiers with their webgear and weapons in a BMP-1. Keep your helmets on, a true cross country joyride, with different protruding metallic objects poking everywhere.

BTW squad leader is usually the APC-vehicle leader, and usually the driver is also used in defending positions as a regular infantryman, if he is not vital driving his vehicle around, as in advance and assault-type missions. However in IFVs the situation is different as the vehicle is considered combat-capable.