German Biased?

[Smersh]

I don't want to argue whether its ethical or not to play as the Germany Army during world war 2. This seems to come up a lot. and people seem to love playing as the "romantic" whermacht. but one thing I noticed in SPWW2, is a clear emphasis on the German Army in scenarios. relative to the amount of German scenarios in lets say WAW or even MBT (yes, not about ww2).

I would say conservatively that 60-75% the 330 something scenarios are to be played as the German Army. Then you have some American army, and Royal army scenarios, and a handful of Red army ones. This nearly ignores and de-emphasizes the other biggest players in the War.

What do you guys think of this?

[Mobhack]

There is no inherent German "bias" in the game.

However, scenarios come from outside designers and hence tend to emphasise their preferences. And also - references. There is much more written work available for designers to base research on the Germans, or battles involving them as the enemy after all. Not so much available about (say) the Vichy French versus Allies in Syria.

One idea Don and I were thinking about was to get a series of "lunch hour" scenarios together, i.e. short but interesting (maybe 10-12 turns, probably on small maps) as perhaps too many of the more involved or even "monster" type was in the current mix. That might just be a place to investigate the "smaller" countries and/or little known conflicts of WW2.

As this is scenario related - it probably would have been better in the scenarios sub-forum, but I will leave it here for general discussion.

It may be an idea to start off a separate thread there along the lines of "what sort of scenarios would you like to see developed" in there later, maybe as a poll once any general ideas were thrashed out here. Everyone coould then vote for front, infantry heavy or tank-heavy etc etc.

But I would bet that the Great Patriotic Anti-Fascist War theatre of the conflict would predominate, as I believe many players would gravitate to the area with the "biggest kewlest tanks"? .

Cheers
Andy

(sorry if the above is a bit rambling, but have just allowed myself an all-nighter playing Sims 2 and am just about to crash

[Pyros]

Hi,

From the scenario designer's point of view, what really matters is how much challenging is a scenario and how many on-line resources the designer may easily find available.

So, I don't really think that there is a point to discuss this issue any further.

But I will tell you three things in order to help you understand that there isn't any pro-German conspiracy among the designers:

1. Currently I am participating in two campaign projects (Anzac WW2 campaign and the Warsaw Uprising 1944; from the Poles POV)
2. My last scenario was Greece against the Italians 1940 (played as the Greeks)
3. Finally, I suggest you to take a look at the Campaign questionnaire and see yourself what is the choice of the audience.

Campaign questionnaire
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

cheers,
Pyros

[Smersh]

I'm fairly satisfied with your replys. I did look at the questtionaire, and perferred nation for campigns was 33% germany and 30% USSR, yet there isn't a single Red army campign.
I'm not trying to blame anyone or call it a conspiracy, but there is clearly an un-intentional bais towards the germans.

[Cameronius]

There was a good Red Army Campaign in the original SP. Poland 1944, I think it was?

[Panzermeyer]

I don't really think it's an unintentional bias. The Germans and all their cool WWII hardware are what sells war games. The game is called steel PANTHERS not steel SHERMANS. It's based on a couple of old board games called PANZER leader and PANZER blitz. They're just giving the people what they want.

[Smersh]

Panzermeyer said:
I don't really think it's an unintentional bias... They're just giving the people what they want.

like I said, the USSR according the survey on this site is perferred by 30% of the people who voted, Germans recieving only 3% more. again, no Red Army campign, and very little scenarios compared to "demand". people clearly want some Soviet scenarios and campigns

[Mobhack]

There is a USSR based WW2 campaign in the game. It is the WW2 Long Campaign. In 41/45 the main theatre choice is the "Great Patriotic War", with the Finnish winter and other wars apearing as appropriate as front choices.

There is no user campaign as yet based on a Soviet core, perhaps because the WW2 LC does the job for most folks?. Or perhaps more likely because sources at the batallion/brigade level for the GPW are not that easy to find (works by Glantz etc are usually translations of entire operations like Kursk sourced from the Soviet military academy sources , at the front level with little fine detail at our game level POV, and also rather dry reading).

If the scenario designers feel there is something interesting to make an USSR based batallion level UC from, then one may appear, but my normal campaign as USSR is just to use the WW2 LC (sometimes starting in Poland, sometimes at the GPW date). Same for the British. The choices of front, and historic battle locations in there do the trick for me.

Cheers
Andy

[Smersh]

I guess your right,Mobhack. it could be the lack of very detailed battalion level information, but there are plenty of translated soviet materials, or at least enough information to estimate how battalions would have behaved during some of the more famous battles (most campaigns are probably not 100% historically accurate, but focus more on making it fun to play).

and there is a difference between generated battles and user created ones. If WW2 LC is so satisfactory why create any user made campaigns in the first place?

not trying to create hostility, SPWW2 is a great game, and u guys did amazing job with the conversion . But we should at least aknowledge deficiencies, and work to improve them. (develop scenarios and campigns for the other major players of WW2, I like what Pyros is doing)

[PatG]

Mobhack said:
There is a USSR based WW2 campaign in the game. It is the WW2 Long Campaign.
<snip>
Cheers
Andy

And thank you very much to the designers for the long Japanese Campaign starting in China in 1931.