Units in Dominions

[Fate]

Ok, I am new to these forums (I doubt I have posted more than two or three times), but one thing bugs me about the game, though I am only playing the demo. The units themselves. They don't have enough personality to them. I mean, even the lowliest officer in my army has more attention than the greatest of my units.

I was just thinking that it would be so cool if a bit more went into units, because right now I generally just buy the best I can of the type I want and go fight. I thought it would be so cool if you could make each individual unit as unique or close to that as you can with your champions. I realize that, seeing as champion micromanagement is a nightmare once you get past turn 20, unit microing would be hell or worse from turn 1 forward. So I came up with the following alternative.

To begin, I assume of course that taking items away from units would be far more complicated than giving them items, so assume there is no such feature. Instead of the current hierarchy of units, what if you could only buy the basic one of that unit's type, so if we take Ulm (because they have so many variations on what is essentially the same model) then you could build a normal infantry. Then you could upgrade a selected group of infantry with, say, black plate and pikes which could cost resources and gold, just like the original units do. Then you would still have the same balance in cost, but with more variation (think Ulm infantry with that flying race's ice armour, I forget the name).

There could also be magic weapons were the crafter requires not only gems but resources too. And they could make, maybe, one normal unit a bane blade per one death crystal and 10 or so resources? There would be a way to balance it, but imagine the possibilities. The flames of a salamander reinforced with lightning rods!

It would be fine if they couldn't get EXACTLY the same items as their commanding counterparts (that would be overpowered) but something would be nice. It would lend a certain quality to how I at leas viewed my soldiers, increase the number of low-level recruits out there, and allow for more interesting build-ups (do I give my infantry pikes in the hope my enemy has melee units, or those new helms to guard against their arrows?).

Besides, this adds more too, because you might want to upgrade troops far from a fort and with no forges out there to give them armour, you would need a wagon to take there. Boom, a new unit with a great purpose. You might even be able to stock it with surpluss food. No micro, the wagon would automatically fill up with any extra food in a province (evenly divided between all wagons present, with maybe a "distribute button" to spread it around) up to around 100 or 200 max. It would automatically jettison food if given something else to carry, and food expelled by one wagon could be picked up by another.

Just an idea, ultimately, but it might make the game more fun, and make troops as interesting as commanders, even into late game.

[halfzware]

I've sorta played around with the same idea myself. The big problem I think is that it would actually end up taking away from the diversity in the game. If you can fully customize units, then almost inevitably you can find 'optimal solutions' that is: equipment combinations that are with very few exception optimal.

Instead you're forced to make controlled trade offs, none of the units are optimal, each has strengths and weaknesses. For example, flagellents have almost no armor, and a flail - but they're sacred and capable of amazing damage especially with a fire bless. They cost something like 15 gold. So they rock, but they have no armor so they're vulnerable to missile fire and big area damage spells. If you could configure them yourself then you could compensate for their weakness by example giving them shields. This contrary to common sense takes away from the diversity and trade-offs in the game.

The thing that dominions DOES do that allows you to sort of achieve what you're looking for is give some impressive spell effects that allow you to change how units perform. Although I'm not as familiar with spell effects as most people - I know there is a spell that stops missile weapons from being usable, a bunch of spells that give armor bonuses, and other protections. In this way you can (with attention to detail) get some very customized performance from your units.

[shovah]

exactly, i mean people could just make those uber units and nothing else (ie give some-one a longbow and nothing else so he is cheap and deadly or go with a fire 9 bless and get a ton of units with like 2 flails

[Fate]

Well, I see those points, and your right, but I guess the real thing is that units feel too seperate from the commanders. It might have more flow (for me) if the commanders got some of their strength directly FROM the units. So there could be "mage-helper" or "priest-helper" type units added, and maybe standards could increase command instead, or on top of, morale and stuff like that. Then there would be more purpose to units, and they would feel more interesting.

I just want something that encourages, and maybe forces, players to deal with armies at least over a hundred to get anything done (though 50 is fine early game). Maybe this already happens, but just glancing through this forum, it feels like big armies tend to be less useful if the higher techs and gem incomes are reached. I ahve only played the demo, so I wouldn't really know.

[Morkilus]

Play a bit with Ermor or Pangaea with turmoil.. then you'll see how effective large armies are. Most of the time they're just "meat shields"... but that's pretty realistic anyway if you want to talk about premodern war. I think the supply system doesn't help for making really big armies... they just starve unless you sit at home in your own dominion.

[Endoperez]

I meant to start a new thread for this, but I don't think this is worth that much attention after all, and it fits this thread quite well. Please excuse me for stealing your thread.

I have a proposition for repel:
Instead of doing 1 damage, it does [(defender's longest weapon) - (the attacking weapon)] points of damage.
So normal Spears (length 3) would deal 1 point of damage vs Swords, 2 versus Daggers, and 3 versus natural weapons like bites. Pike of the Ulmish Pikeneers could deal up to 6 points of armor-negating damage to 0-length attacks, and 3 points to normal spears.
Damage values of some weapons, like Pikes, could be lowered to compensate their new repelling power.

Would it change make Repel more poweful, too powerful, or something else? If it's too strong, maybe the following changes could also be made:
1) A new attack/defence (but not morale) roll is needed before each point of damage.
2) The minimum damage is one, and it increases at half the proposed rate, e.g. Pike vs Sword (6vs2) would deal 3 damage.
3) The minimum rate is one, and it is one/two points lower than the proposed.

This would make long weapons very good against all natural weapons. This would hurt Wyrms.
On the other hand, the small improvements would make e.g. Ulmish infantry with Battleaxes, Flails or Mauls slightly better, those with Hammers slightly worse, Black Knights quite a bit better if the Lance can be used to repel, and Pikeneers a lot better.

I would also like Pikeneers to move little faster than the other Ulmish infantry, and have even higher morale (they have 11 when compared to 10 of other Ulmish infantry) with a small increase in price. Then they would fit their historical role as brave soldiers fighting in the front, and getting paid more, but still wouldn't be useful on their own.