HMGs vs APC role?

[bison24]

Im more or less new here, so if this has been brought down before and killed please forgive me.

http://www.bvpservice.com:8101/14,5mm-12,7mm%20cartridges.html Here it mentions that there are 12.7mm AP rounds capable of piercing 20mm of armor at 750 meters range, and 14.5mm ones capable of reaching 20mm penetration at 200 metes range.

In game however, HMGs have penetrations of 0 or occasionally one, and lack AP rounds. A penetration of 2 would make them much more lethal, especially towards various light APCs vulnerable to them IRL. Naturally more modern APCs would remain almost fully immune, but it would still IMO make gameplay more interesting and realistic. Just a suggestion for further development.

[Mobhack]

Check out the 50 calibre SLAP round, available to some armies, and the Soviet 14.5mm is now a "mini auto cannon".

Other 12.7mm MGs have an HE armour penetration value, which can cause 1 AP, enough to damage light armour such as BTR on occasion.

The real reason to use a 12.7mm instead of a 7.62mm MG is to give long range anti-personnel support (40 hexes or so instead of 20 or so) and also as an AA weapon which will cause more damage and/or be useful at longer range.

Cheers
Andy

[Weeble]

What round will the AI choose to fire against an opponent with both armoured and unarmoured areas, given both HE & AP/SLAP loadout, if it chooses to fire at all?

I was trying to recreate the 42 Cdo RM assault on Limbang, Sarawak, 12/62. I had reduced the armour on landing barges to recreate the improvised armour craft used. These had 1.5" wood + sand-filled backpack sides, and the front loading ramp welded up (?).

I gave them 1 side & rear steel armour, 2 front [Hull]. 1 rear turret, 0 front & sides (glass bridge & wheelhouse). 0 top armour.

In I vain tried to get my TKNU rebels to fire at the oncoming 'Z' craft before they reached the Police wharf. I tried altering ammo loadouts & weapons for the TKNU rebels MG and had to settle for .50cal instead of the (actual) .303 Bren. Eventually I assumed it was a SNAFU on my part and gave up.

However...

I have since tried to get the AI to react fire onto bulldozers backing towards (and through!) LMG, MMG and HMG squads, but unless I go up to a weapon where the HE round has a pen value I get no joy. I know the bulldozer has an extra tough HEAT front hull dozer blade for its 2 steel front hull armour, but all other facings are zero.

Do weapons without a HE penetration value not AI fire at targets with only some armoured faces (such as the US M48A1 Chaparral, which has a soft turret sides and rear)?

Am I expecting too much from the AI, as most human players would jump at the chance of firing at the "soft spot" on an otherwise armoured vehicle?

[Mobhack]

If the unit is a class that is assumed to be armoured, or is armoured somewhere - then it is armoured.

The AI units may well have been holding fire as they are hidden. Generally - only AT weapons fire at incoming barges and the infantry types seem to keep thier shots for when the troops dismount on the beach, then they usually open up en masse on the bunched grunts the barge has just disgorged. So that is probably a function of the barge class deep in the code.

Rubber rafts, however, the reaction fire routines will shoot up happily with rifles and mg.

Try using a rubber assault raft or rivercraft class (or possibly a light amphibian) for your modified watercraft units. The AI may have fits with inappropriate water craft, depending on the scenario. (It really only knows about beach assault and river crossing asault scenarios). Ask about that sort of thing in the scenario design forum, as the scenario design guys may have tried that sort of thing already and know what works.

Cheers
Andy