How to advance in the modern battlefield

[Paddington]

I`m playing one of the scenarios with germans against russians. I chose the russian side, so I`m attacking.

I`m facing leopard 2a4 tanks and milan at teams.

The map is pretty open.

So I start my advance, a bmp instantly gets hit by a milan team. Then the next one, then the... You get the point. I smoked the path that my armor force is moving trough. The milan teams are out of action beacause of the smoke. Now the leopards start smashing my tanks to pieces. I can`t see trough the smoke, they can. I advance in the north part of the map. No milans here but those damn leopards start shooting again. They are at 2200m away, but I can`t see them
Even though about 3 leopards blaze away time after time my troops don`t see a thing (no smoke here). So the germans simply kill my tanks one by one while my tanks try to spot the shooters.

So I can`t really do anything. If I advance trough the field of fire I`ll suffer horrendous losses.

I have some air forces, they can spot the german units (bug? all enemy units are visible...) But when my turn begins I can`t see sh#t.

The artillery is pretty useless cause it doesn`t have any targets.

[Pyros]

Hi,

Did you say all enemy units are visible?
When? While your air assets pass over them?
Did this happen all the times, or did this happen only once?
Can you reproduce it (if yes please attach a save of the game)?

Also which is the scenario you are playing, maybe I will be able to give you a hint on how to advance.

If you wish to advance through an open field then you should first advance your light infantry units and/or scouts. It would also be best if you create with your artillery a smoke screen just to prevent the enemy of doing shooting practice against those recon units. Also move them with 1/3 to 1/2 of their speed in order to make a cautious advance. Finally try to move them through forest or rough hexes to gain cover and defensive bonus.

cheers,
Pyros

[Chaim_Krause]

Sound like a fun scenario. What number is it. I'll give it a try.

But off-hand, the only way to make progress is concentrate you forces and their firepower, only advance under cover, and suppress, suppress, suppress.

[serg3d]

Paddington said:
I can`t see trough the smoke, they can.

That is OK. Until middle of 90's russian tanks/APC have vision 30 and all western armor have vision 40. So they can see you and you can not see them. But after 1996(?) russian tanks have vision 40 too, and became superior due to Arena system, advanced ERA and better armament. During 80's the tactic I've found is to use helos to locate enemy armor/ATGM, suppress them with Uragans(for infantry/ATGM/light APC) or Buratino(for tanks) (Grad not so good), and attack with Hinds and tanks together. As soon as russian tanks see the enemy they are quite good, especially in defence - they equipped with ATGM. Moving infantry forward didn't help me much - it's vision even worse, like 10-15. BTW I've just found that APC from recon company have best vision - in 90's recon APC have vision 50.

[Paddington]

The scenario is "Schwazer Herzog - Koenig****ter"


Did you say all enemy units are visible?
When? While your air assets pass over them?

Yes, they didn`t show up on the mini-map but I could see them on the actual battle map.

Only during my air assaults

[czerpak]

yeah, tough job for russians in that one. I am just few turns into the battle now, but am also loosing lots of stuf.

[Pyros]

Hi,

I will have to take a look on this scenario...

cheers,
Pyros

[DRG]

That sceanrio has an unbeliveable amount of firepower for the Russians as well as 5 Hind attack helos which, if other threads on this list are to be belived are the Lords of the battlefield.

Do as Chaim suggests......." the only way to make progress is concentrate you forces and their firepower, only advance under cover, and suppress, suppress, suppress."

Don

[Pyros]

Hi,

I looked the scenario and I tried to play the first turn.
He are my conclusions:

The scenario is playable (not hard) and the best tactical approach is a double wing assault from the two extreme edges of the map (upper and lower).
Before attacking you should concentrate your forces in the two extreme positions in order to achieve the biggest possible concentration
Before attacking you must advance your infantry (you have a lot of it) as close as possible to the front lines of the enemy.
Make good use of several snipers in the lower part of the map.
Don't start your attack until you are ready to start it, meaning that everyone must be in designated positions.
Prepare your artillery strikes in order to provide cover, smoke screen and suppressing fire to the enemy units.
Use your air assets as a support weapon in order to kill the enemy from long range.
Once the front lines are breached continue to the rear and leave minimum forces (infantry to deal with the rest of the front line VP locations)
You shouldn't start your assault before turn 3-6, you must be ready for it and your infantry (scouts,snipers) should advance close to the enemy positions in order to spot who is shooting at you.

I will help you more by quoting some military maxims from Napoleon and John Frederick Charles Fuller:

Napoleon's Military Maxim #16

A well-established maxim of war is not to do anything which your enemy wishes and for the single reason that he does so wish. You should, therefore, avoid a field of battle which he has reconnoitered and studied. You should be still more careful to avoid one which he has fortified and where he has entrenched himself. A corollary of this principle is, never to attack in front a position which admits of being turned.

By Major General John Frederick Charles Fuller:

...The principle of the Objective-the true objective being that point at which the enemy may be most decisively defeated ; generally is this point is to be found along the line of least resistance. The principle of Mass-that is, concentration of strength and effort at the decisive point. The principle of the Offensive ; the principles of Security, Surprise, and Movement (i.e. rapidly). *

From these elements I evolved four elementary principles, namely (i.) From mind, the principle of the objective.
(ii.) From protection, the principle of security.
(iii.) From weapons, the principle of the offensive.
(iv.) And from movement, the principle of mobility.


I next postulated a law, which I called "The Law of the Conservation of Military Energy," and from it extracted four accentuating principles of war, namely (i.) The principle of surprise.
(ii.) The principle of economy of force.
(iii.) The principle of concentration of force.
(iv.) And the principle of co-operation.

cheers,
Pyros

[czerpak]

Due to soviet doctrine russian commander must be prepared for haevy losses to gain the ground.
The question is to have enuff left to make it.

Anyways, good summarize how to advance, Pyros.