Improving Mine tech concept

[Emperor's Child]

I was looking over the sweet mod data files today and had an idea that may add a little interesting twist with mines I�d thought I�d share with y�all.

Right now the way mines work is that they just can�t be found (or in the case of the sweet mod, they can only be seen after you reach a certain level of scanners).

That got me to thinking: Wouldn�t it make sense that as your scanner technology improved, their ability to detect cloaked objects should also improve, and the mines themselves should also improve with their technology.

My general concept is this:
Change the mine defined in vehicle size so that it does not have any inherent cloaking capability.

Next you would add either a mod or a component that does have this cloaking capability, and define a series of them that improve the cloaking capability as the mine technology improves.

Minor logistical consideration is that if you made this a component, you would have to adjust the size of the standard mine hull size to accommodate it without giving up any warhead space.

Also, you would want to have the highest level of mine technology just able to defeat the highest level of scanner technology. So, in a game with stock levels of scanners and mines, you could adjust the mines so that level 1 mine technology would give you level 2 EM cloaking capability, level 2 mine tech gives you level 3 cloaks, and so on.

How this would play out is that as you advanced in scanner technology, you will be able to detect minefields that have older mines with less advanced cloaks.

I think that this would not be too hard to do and would not be unbalancing. It would make more advanced races much less likely to run into a minefield, giving them an advantage, but not in a way that would unbalance the game.

Thoughts?

[Fyron]

I like this concept. It is currently implemented in Adamant Mod, and I think it works well.

[Emperor's Child]

Great minds think alike!

[Suicide Junkie]

P&N had some of the heaviest mines be detectable with gravitic sensors.

The biggest problem with mines, though, is the all-or-nothing-ness of it:
Either you bring enough sweepers to clear any field with no damage, or you forget/lack tech and your fleet gets vaporized.

Tossing minesweepers in the trash, and then reducing mine warhead damage and/or mines-per-sector limits is a better way to go.
Thusly, when you place mines, they:
- WILL do some damage
- WON'T wipe out decent sized fleets
- WILL slow those fleets down while they repair the damage.

You can even set things up such that players will have to place their mines not just stacked way up on the warppoints, but spread across a number of sectors around the warppoints and planets.

The armored fleet with repair ships will still get through, but they will be slowed down to a sector or two per turn while they plow through your mined territory.

[Fyron]

It is also fun to include mine warheads with a variety of special damage types. Only shield generators, only engines, etc.

[rdouglass]

Imperator Fyron said:
It is also fun to include mine warheads with a variety of special damage types. Only shield generators, only engines, etc.

IIRC the one thing I didn't like about special damage mines is that for instance, a stack of 100 engine damaging mine can be 'cleared' by a measley frigate. Frigate enters mine field, first mine detonates. Mine damages engines but ships till remains. Second mine detonates, ship still remains. Third mine detonates, etc. etc. upt o all 100 mines. Sure the engines on the frigate are gone but so is the minefield.

Now if it could be 'fixed' so that 1 ship detonates ONLY 1 (or even like a max of 5 mines) then these specialty mines could be a lot more useful. But also, like many things in the game, that is a 'hard code' issue and not 'fixable' by a mod.

</$.02>

[Suicide Junkie]

Just mix some normal warheads in with the mines.

Problem solved

[Fyron]

I believe that should no longer be a problem in 1.91. It was fixed when the mine algorithms were changed to prevent a high structure component, such as a colony module, from causing all mine warheads that did not do enough damage in one hit to destroy it to not detonate. If no engines are left, no engine-damaging mines should detonate. I have no idea what happens if you mix warheads on the same mine unit, however.

[Hunpecked]

Suicide Junkie writes:

"You can even set things up such that players will have to place their mines not just stacked way up on the warppoints, but spread across a number of sectors around the warppoints and planets."

The whole problem with the concept of "mines" in a space game is

Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. -- HHGTTG

Now with enough mental gymnastics you might be able to rationalize effective minefields around "choke points" like warp points or planets, but in interplanetary space, forget it.

[douglas]

If you redefine "mine" as "prelaunched missile", it all depends on how good its sensors are, how fast it can move, how stealthy it is, and how far away it can be and still do damage. A really big one-shot laser powered by a bomb, with good sensors, stealthing, and engines could be a major hazard even in space.