OT: Sci-Fi Founders

Atrocities · #1 February 17th, 2005, 08:44 AM

Forbidden Planet - Star Trek

I recently watched the movie the Forbidden Planet and I have to say that the similarities between this movie and Star Trek are too numerous to list. I was amazed at the quality of the movie, the look, the feel, and the technology that they used in the movie. For a movie that is over 40 years old, it is actually quite good.

I loved the story and how the ID, now I know where ID Software got its name, played an intelligent part of the movie. I can see where Gene R. got his idea for Star Trek, including the NCC number 1701. (Listen to the beginning of the movie, the helmsmen mentions it.)

Leslie Nelson (sp) did a very good job in the movie, and the actor Walter P. has one of those voices that you wish you simply bottled up and use whenever you need a quality voice over.

I really liked the movie, and am just amazed at how much of an influence the movie had on Star Trek.

Dune - Star Wars

As I listen to the Dune series on audio cd, I can see where Lucas got his ideas for Star Wars. Again the comparisons are too many to list.

The idea of the Jedi are closely match to the Freemon or rather the being that Paul�s is transformed into. The training of the wereding way can be used as the road map to the training a Jedi as they learn to use the force.

The Empire is young, but the republic for which gave it birth is vastly old.

Dune was clearly Lucas's inspiration for Star Wars.

Lord Of The Rings = Babylon 5.

I have said this before and made this comparison many times. B5 is a lot like LOTR in subtle ways that cannot be ignored. I know that it is an old discussion, but I could not find the link.

I find it inspiring to know that some of the greatest Sci-Fi franchises found their birth based on other great sci-fi works.

Arkcon · #2 February 17th, 2005, 10:11 AM

I dunno, my high school English teacher always thought that Star Wars was a western in space. The burned out farm scene is very reminiscent of a number of westerns. He pointed out that the background music for Shane was used for some scenes in Star Wars. They have a similar plot as well, two guys fighting for the honor of one girl.

I remember when I heard an interview with the actor who played Darth Vader. Not James Earl Jones, the guy in the suit. He described how they learned to do the first light saber fights with a Kendo master. All I could think was "Weak! Light saber fighting is just Kendo."

I think this has come up before. Everything is derivative of something else. Though my English teacher was always excited. These epic, broad sweeping, television shows and movies are our civilization's Beowulf. They speak about our time to future generations.

Atrocities · #3 February 17th, 2005, 10:37 AM

Your school english teacher needs to read the Dune series. Once that is done, all the peaces fall into place. Lucas was deeply inspired by dune.

Gene R. said that Star Trek is like a wagon train in space. I always thought he used that anology to sell the show because it really is far more like Forebiddon Planet than any western I have ever seen.

Caduceus · #4 February 17th, 2005, 11:08 AM

Unfortunately (or fortunately) you will find in pop culture, literature and all other forms of art, that imitation and re-invention are common.

An example is Shakespeare whose works were inspired by "historical" documents of his day and the folk history of people. Many of his stories were lifted directly from their historical source. The plays were considered trite and plebian in their day, but still stand today as some of the greatest ever written.

I guess there's no real point to this other than to say that disappointment in an unoriginal idea shouldn't lessen your enjoyment of the "copy". But Lucas himself has always admitted that he used a lot of sociology and myth sources to generate his saga.

Atrocities · #5 February 17th, 2005, 11:25 AM

Lucas is such a BS'er that its funny.

I remember seeing interview of him and thinking to myself, at age 8 or 9, that he stumbled onto the Star Wars success by happen stance. At age 8 or 9 I thought this based off of interviews he gave back then. I wish my 8 year old nephews were as interested in Ep III as I was in Episdoe IV. God I am old.

Riesig_Bar · #6 February 17th, 2005, 12:44 PM

We are all old if we remember forbidden planet, Read Asimov and Hienlen(sp) and Tolkien and others in high school or earlier.

But as long as we don't let our minds grow old and weak we can imagine and dream.

And play SEIV.

TurinTurambar · #7 February 17th, 2005, 12:51 PM

My body in the morning tells me I'm 37.

But for some reason, my "feeling" about my self seems to hover around 17.

I just realized the other day that Van Halen's "1984" is of course over 20 years old. And that made me feel old. That was the biggest album of my highschool years.

OK, as usual we're way OT in the first page already and I think this time it's my fault.

BWAAAAAAha-ha-ha-haaaaaaaa!
Turin

luke_slovakian · #8 February 17th, 2005, 01:52 PM

COme on you guys you aren't old. I have to wake up and say damn i'm fifteen and i need surgery:-d

Azselendor · #9 February 17th, 2005, 02:17 PM

If I recall right, Star Trek was supposed to the Western in Space, IE: Wagon Train to the Stars

And StarWars was supposed to be like an Epic/Pirate/Fantasy Movie in Space.

But if you review the original concepts of the series, you'll see how the series started totalyl different.

Spock, for example, was supposed to be red and ate stuff via a metal plate in his stomach. The Klingons were supposed to be something totally different and non-humanoid race named "Trox" or something like that. And the Enterprise's missions (Yorktown originally) were supposed to travel to parellel earths. The concept was actually pretty clever since it would have made use of every existing set at the time in hollywood and require only a handful of new sets.

The concept survived in partial form into the proudction of star trek, but later served as a foundation for series like the Time Tunnel and Sliders.

Star Wars, in the original script, involved a General Luke Skywalker trying to get the brains of some scientists to clone bodies and away from the clutches of imperial capital, It started with a G, I can't remember it fully, but it reminded me of a gastro-intestinal disorder.

But to further cement WildCard's comment with something I heard at the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writer's Guild

Nothing ever created is original. when you think you're original, then someone else already done it a hundred times before you.

RudyHuxtable · #10 February 17th, 2005, 02:54 PM

I don't want to be a party pooper but I do think the Dune/Star Wars comparison is wrong. Dune is written very much as an allegory to the problems and cultures of the current middle east. The spice is characterized by oil (which really does rule the known universe), and the Emperor is basically the British Empire, since at the time they still had a great command of the region. The Fremen are sometimes compared to the Bedouins, but it is more likely Arabs in general were the basis for the Fremen. Once the first book was written, he eschewed the original tenor a bit and made the series stranger and stranger, but nevertheless his initial inspiration was the effects of oil on the international community.

Star Wars was made with the old west in mind, and he included magic to help build his myth, since so much of our past includes tales of miracles and other "magic" occurrences.

I'll go with you on Forbidden Planet, though.