Lamias vs mandragoras

Kuritza_Dru · #1 February 8th, 2005, 08:02 AM

Well, I'm trying to make my mind, which summoning is more effective - lamias or mandragoras? What would you choose?
And while we're at it, is any of them really effective?

Boron · #2 February 8th, 2005, 08:10 AM

Mandragoras can kill almost any SC but they are undead and have low HP . So a few Priests or mages will decimate them extremely quickly . Imo not worth the nature gems .

Lamias are not bad but i would rather invest my always scarce nature gems in Ivy kings , Jade armors , GoH , GoR and maybe Haunted forest .
Summoning a bunch of Ivy kings and equipping them with Penetration bonus items for Charm spamming can be pretty effective if you can combine it with either a devastation battlefield spell like Wrathful skies or with Master enslave to take out the mass of troops

. Then with 5-10 Ivy kings spamming charm you have good chances to steal lots of enemy thugs/SCs .
The lamiaqueens themselves are excellent mages also .

So if you can afford don't summon nature creatures . If you want creatures look in earth and bloodmagic instead . Mech men , Devils , FoDs and living Statues are the classics here

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Kuritza_Dru · #3 February 8th, 2005, 08:19 AM

Well, the problem is, I'm hard-pressed now, so I have to summon some effective troops, and while devils & mech. men are good, I don't have blood or earth magic, just Air and Nature (conjuration 6). Lamia queens are being summoned already, but I need some meat to push the enemy asap. And since we are playing with a hard research, my 150 research points/turn aren't enough to get charm or nether bolts (for lamias) anytime soon.

Boron · #4 February 8th, 2005, 08:53 AM

Then summon Vine Ogres . They are very excellent meat shields + dirt cheap . With the 5 nature gem helmet you even get +1 vine ogre per summoning , so 2 for 1 nature gem each .

Beware though that the Vine Ogres are only excellent meat shields . If you have to rely on troops alone then lamias summoned by lamia queens ( they get a few extra ) are indeed probably your best summon at the moment .

Oversway · #5 February 8th, 2005, 11:42 AM

I agree with Boron that Vine Ogres are good for fodder. I think Ivy Kings also get a bonus to summon them, and you can get an extra 2 if you forge the treelord +2 nature staff. Although if you make those things, you are spending more nature gems per Vine Orge so that you can produce them faster. The problem with Vine Ogres is that it takes awhile to build up a good number of them.

Personally I've had more success with Mandragoras than Lamias but both have such a low protection that I have problems keeping them alive.

alexti · #6 February 8th, 2005, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Kuritza_Dru said:
Well, the problem is, I'm hard-pressed now, so I have to summon some effective troops

I'd summon lamias and mandragoras and vine ogres. Idea is to put few (3-4) smallish vine ogre squads in the front, 1 or 2 larger groups of lamias slightly behind and spread out several mandragora squads across the field (but more towards the rear). Script mandragoras to attack largest, ogres and lamias to hold&attack or attack. This setup will make the army relatively sturdy (for that level of research) and reasonably good against various armies/SCs. Add some mages, guarded by ogres to custom-tailor the army

TheBirthdayParty · #7 February 8th, 2005, 08:35 PM

My vote, in your situation, is for the lamias simply because they transform and thus will last longer on the battlefiend than mandragoras and vine ogres are slow to get a group together, plus not all that effective once you do. 1 vine ogre vs 5 lamias vs...8 mandragoras? each summons, i'd choose the lamias. But you still need a few turns to get lamias or mandragoras out in a large enough unit/regiment.

NTJedi · #8 February 8th, 2005, 09:05 PM

The Vine Ogres are a long term investment where you need like 3 or 4 nature mages pumping 2 each turn... after a dozen turns you have a nice meat shield for your different mage armies.

The lamias are good if you need the troops now or if your opponent has lots of priests.

The mandragoras are great since it takes several banishments for one to fall, plus they will put the approaching enemy troops or SC asleep with the attacks. Also they are definitely worth the price if the caster is a high nature level.

TheBirthdayParty · #9 February 9th, 2005, 02:53 AM

One thing I forgot that could very well make mandragoras better is that, i believe, they aren't affected by morale. IE-no routing worries.

Hakko · #10 February 9th, 2005, 01:39 PM

Ivy Kings get 4 vine ogres/summoning at a cost of 1N per spell. That's pretty good economics after a few turns. 20 vine ogres is a very nice meat shield. Twenty ogres in five turns for 25N (20N for Ivy King plus 5 for the ogres) vs. 20 turns for 20N (assuming one caster and no ivy crown) is a pretty good tradeoff.