OT: US National debt

[Karibu]

There have been a lot of discussion on the media (also elsewhere than in USA) about US national debt. It is amazing when you realize, that that country takes about 1,7 billion dollars new debt every day. Look at the Debt clock and you see the amount of it. On the other hand, there is a calculation how much it is per citizen. It is actually not that much. Considering the difference of value between euro and dollar, Finland has relatively more debt than US (our debt per citizen is about 22000 euro) and our economy is considered to be in good shape. Opinions, anyone?

[Rasorow]

I dont know about anyone else but that is more then I can afford to write a check for to reduce the debt. 25k is well over half my yearly salary - before taxes. Considering that relatively recently we had a surplus in the budget, I think we can do better then we are.

Rasorow

[narf poit chez BOOM]

If I was in the US, I'd go with a 3% raise in taxes, as long as a constitutional and legal amendment was passed saying that all of the US's elected government would immediatly loose their positions if it were used for anything but debt reduction.

[rdouglass]

Rasorow said:
...Considering that relatively recently we had a surplus in the budget...

And when might that be? I don't think there has been a tru surplus since the 60's. I think it (what you're referencing) was all just a paper shuffle; somewhat similar to the Enron scam. It was just positioning against the Social Security funds the way I remember it.

[Rasorow]

Perhaps, if that was the case at least then we could cheat enough to look like we had a surplus......

Rasorow

[geoschmo]

rdouglass said:

And when might that be? I don't think there has been a tru surplus since the 60's. I think it (what you're referencing) was all just a paper shuffle; somewhat similar to the Enron scam. It was just positioning against the Social Security funds the way I remember it.

Don't confuse the national debt with the annual deficit. There was a real dollar surplus in the anual budget for a little while there. The total debt, which is all the accumulated deficits from year to year wasn't gone, but it was getting smaller for a couple years. Now that we are running deficits again the debt is back to increasing.

[douglas]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
If I was in the US, I'd go with a 3% raise in taxes, as long as a constitutional and legal amendment was passed saying that all of the US's elected government would immediatly loose their positions if it were used for anything but debt reduction.

Any ideas for how to phrase that with no loopholes and without requiring a balanced budget? If so, I'm sure everyone who has ever tried to increase funding for something by dedicating all money from a new source of income to that cause would love to hear about it.

[mottlee]

As most of you probably know, politions DO NOT pay for things as GAS, STAMPS, you know the things that keep us going...I would like to see them start to pay for ALL the freebees they get and to stop incressing there pay when they do not even voit on the thing they are there to vote on!

[Starhawk]

Okay without trying to start a flame war here (this is a genuine question not an argument) it is my understanding that every nation on Earth has a national debt and that those "debts" are pretty much used as a sort of credit system for a nation, for example say UK owes US 5 billion dollars but instead of being forced to pay it streight up they'd be asked to back the US in a UN vote or something of that nature instead.

Now I was only using US UK as an example but is that true that often nations pay their debts to one another through non monetary means?

I mean face it if the United State called in every debt we were owed we'd get a few trillion bucks to pay off our own debts but we'd also bankrupt many nations in the process and likely be bankrupted afterwards ourselves?


Like I said I'm not doing any political US is superior stuff here I am just trying to figure out why I've heard so many people saying "national debt is a political plus sometimes". I mean I am far from a professional economist so heh .

[geoschmo]

Yah, a debt in and of itself is not always a bad thing. It's basically a line of credit. Never allowing the government to borrow for short term needs would be unrealistic and to rigid. The problem is if you run up so much debt that the interest on it becomes an unmanageable expense, or if you become unable to make your payments and default.