Map Suggestions?

Thufir · #1 August 17th, 2004, 08:51 PM

I'm looking to startup another newbie/intermediate game in the next day or two, and I'd like some suggestions on which map to use. To date, I've started playing in 2 mp games on Karan, which seems good, but I'd like to run on something larger. Orania is perfectly acceptable, but it bugs me a little to play on a donut - are there any maps out there that have just horizontal wraparound?

Cradle of Dominions or Zen's Cradle seem like good candidates - does anyone have any opinions on one vs. the other? Are there any other large maps that have been extensively tested for MP?

I'm interested in supporting 10+ players, and I'd like to err on the side of having too much space between players, rather than too little - so any comments on how many players a given map can handle would be appreciated.

TIA,

Thufir

Nagot Gick Fel · #2 August 18th, 2004, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Thufir said:
I'm looking to startup another newbie/intermediate game in the next day or two, and I'd like some suggestions on which map to use.

My advice is to not pick large or huge maps for newbie games. You tend to learn the basics faster on smaller maps, and that's what new players need. Besides, the amount of MM you'll have to cope with after 30-40 turns tends to increase exponentially with the map size, and heavy MM is what turns newbies away from Dominions before anything else - so avoid it at all costs.

Quote:

Orania is perfectly acceptable, but it bugs me a little to play on a donut

Make a copy of orania.map as orania_nowrap.map, edit orania_nowrap.map, remove the #wraparound line, and change the map title to something meaningful, eg:

#dom2title Orania (no wraparound)

Quote:

are there any maps out there that have just horizontal wraparound?

Ringwold. You can also edit the Orania map file and remove the #neighbours clauses that connect North to South.

Quote:

Are there any other large maps that have been extensively tested for MP?

Inland seems popular for advanced/expert games - not too big, even playing field for everyone because of the wraparound and rather uniform layout. Although it's not really suited if both Atlantis and R'lyeh are in.

Chazar · #3 August 18th, 2004, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Thufir said:
Orania is perfectly acceptable, but it bugs me a little to play on a donut - are there any maps out there that have just horizontal wraparound?

Just to be nitpicky: Orania is a ball(sphere), where a horziontal-only wraparound map yields a donut (torus)...

EDIT: I am wrong in what I have written above and I damn well knew it! Orania and other wrap-around maps can be projetced on a torus. Consider a straight horizontal line like earth equator (which in fact is circle): If you move it upwards, that line decreases in length until it reduces to a point at the north pole. This is not what we encounter on a torus and neither on orania. A great circle on orania does not change its length when shifting it upwards or downwards.

Stossel · #4 August 18th, 2004, 03:32 PM

Ringworld is nice, would definitely give new players lessons in strategic placement of castles/temples, trying to gain choke points, cutting off those pesky bolts in which nations can come in from far away.

Nagot Gick Fel · #5 August 18th, 2004, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Chazar said:
Just to be nitpicky: Orania is a ball(sphere), where a horziontal-only wraparound map yields a donut (torus)...

Sorry, but you're wrong. A flat map that connects its West to its East and its North to its South is topologically equivalent to a torus, not a sphere.

Turms · #6 August 18th, 2004, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Chazar said:

Quote:

Thufir said:
Orania is perfectly acceptable, but it bugs me a little to play on a donut - are there any maps out there that have just horizontal wraparound?

Just to be nitpicky: Orania is a ball(sphere), where a horziontal-only wraparound map yields a donut (torus)...

Just to be nitpicky: The original poster is correct. Horizontal-only wraparound gives a cylinder

I too would prefer more cylindrical maps. Those donuts are not very intuitive IMO.

Thufir · #7 August 18th, 2004, 03:46 PM

Thanks for the info Mr. Fel, this helps!

Quote:

Nagot Gick Fel said:

My advice is to not pick large or huge maps for newbie games. You tend to learn the basics faster on smaller maps, and that's what new players need. Besides, the amount of MM you'll have to cope with after 30-40 turns tends to increase exponentially with the map size, and heavy MM is what turns newbies away from Dominions before anything else - so avoid it at all costs.

Maybe you're right - I guess I just love huge, complex games, and have always been willing to put up with the MM, even when first learning a game. But then again, maybe I am not a representative newbie.

The thing I was thinking was to setup a 14+ player game, and by map description, it seemed that Orania and Zen's Cradle were the likely candidates.

Quote:

Inland seems popular for advanced/expert games - not too big, even playing field for everyone because of the wraparound and rather uniform layout. Although it's not really suited if both Atlantis and R'lyeh are in.

Is there any reason Inland would be unsuitable for newbies?
In the ingame description Inland says it'll handle 10-15 players - does it still provide a good game at 14/15 players? Also, with 5 water provinces it would seem advisable not to include either Atlantis or R'lyeh - do players actually go for either of those on Inland?

Quote:

You can also edit the Orania map file and remove the #neighbours clauses that connect North to South.

Thanks for the tip - I'll try this out on Orania, sp.

Agrajag · #8 August 18th, 2004, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Thufir said:
Thanks for the info Mr. Fel, this helps!

Quote:

Inland seems popular for advanced/expert games - not too big, even playing field for everyone because of the wraparound and rather uniform layout. Although it's not really suited if both Atlantis and R'lyeh are in.

Is there any reason Inland would be unsuitable for newbies?
In the ingame description Inland says it'll handle 10-15 players - does it still provide a good game at 14/15 players? Also, with 5 water provinces it would seem advisable not to include either Atlantis or R'lyeh - do players actually go for either of those on Inland?

Well, on Hard_Slog one player picked R`lyeh, he even got what I'd consider a not-too-bad starting position (in the bigger sea, with a double VP province in it), he went AI though =P
Also, if you plan on a newbie game, make sure to keep a slot for me

Thufir · #9 August 18th, 2004, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Turms said:

Just to be nitpicky: The original poster is correct. Horizontal-only wraparound gives a cylinder

I too would prefer more cylindrical maps. Those donuts are not very intuitive IMO.

Well, one day, once I become an expert Dom2 player (and what does that usually take people - a year or two?

) I may go into the map creation business. It'd be nice to make a few cylindrical maps complete with bigger provinces on top and bottom to approximate a sphere.

It'd also be nice to have more pretty maps that are also good for MP. The Faerun map is gorgeous, and I love playing SP on it, but so much of what makes it great for SP makes it bad for MP. Maybe Edi's new map resolves that conflict, but I suspect that's a difficult issue to work out. Karan is nice to look at, but the lack of any wraparound can work out to screw your starting position.

Thufir · #10 August 18th, 2004, 03:59 PM

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FM_Surrigon said:
Ringworld is nice, would definitely give new players lessons in strategic placement of castles/temples, trying to gain choke points, cutting off those pesky bolts in which nations can come in from far away.

That sounds interesting - has anyone played Ringworld in MP? I'd hate to be first to try it out in MP, this being a newbie game and all.

How many players will Ringworld accomodate?