common high end sc protection/defense values ? possible defeat with common troops ?

[Boron]

unfortunately i joined my first mp games 1 months ago so i have yet to see my first sc's crushing me .
in the Last days i think i began to understand dominions 2 a bit better .
first a introduction question lol :
are there any spells which increase attack / defense ?

so would you experts plz be so kind and simply post some sc's with their attack , defense and protection values unfatigued which you use yourself ?
and then after that if you would like a hypothetical with the best defense / protection values you could think of .
iirc there is a cap for att , def , prot at 40 .

after you posted your sc's i will tomorrow post some questions with some tactics to use common troops i had thought of and you will tell me if that would possibly work to defeat a sc from what you have seen in your mp expierience
because with dominions i think you can only claim to have mp experience after at least 1 year of play

i won't use mandragoras / carrion beasts or vampires for that they are well known i think .
at least even if i as a newbie know of them that is a sign that it is common knowlegde ihmo

[quantum_mechani]

Quckness boosts attack and defense, several earth spells add armour.

EDIT: Sacreds with fire 9 bless can work against many SCs.

[ July 29, 2004, 00:59: Message edited by: quantum_mechani ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by Boron:
so would you experts plz be so kind and simply post some sc's with their attack , defense and protection values unfatigued which you use yourself ?

Well, a common Bane Lord can have attack and defense values around 20-ish. Ice Devils and Arch Devils push into the 25+ range, and you can see highly experienced units such as high-class combat pretenders pushing into 30+, or even higher with the rare "Power" wish.

The right choice of ordinary schmoes can sometimes take down the lower-class ones, but most of the good ones tend to require magefire take down if you're not equipped with your own SCs, since ordinary troops get mowed through like grass. I suggest the use of lifeless ordinaries to impede the target's ability to lifesteal itself. Do NOT combine them with living troops, or your efforts to wear down the target may be undone by those living troops getting attacked and feeding an SC that was close to death. Lots of longdeads, statues, mechanicals, and/or golems work well here. Combine this with some sort of non-resistable attack, such as Astral Fire, Banefire, or Drain Life, and you can sink one without using your own.

[Cohen]

Astral Fire should go through the MR to damage the target.
Not so useful as spell for what I've seen.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Cohen:
Astral Fire should go through the MR to damage the target.
Not so useful as spell for what I've seen.

What do you mean? Astral fires is a damaging spell that is not affected by MR at all, and does 10 armour negating damage to a good area with 100 precision.

[Lex]

ummm, the description of the spell says, and i quote: "Magic resistance negates"

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by alexi:
ummm, the description of the spell says, and i quote: "Magic resistance negates"

It does appear to say that, yes. It's probably lying, though. It's all a big conspiracy to scare you off of using it. Pure and utter propaganda. Pay it no heed.

[ July 29, 2004, 08:11: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

[Vynd]

I suppose this could work. Although if the SC has a life draining weapon he may still be able to replenish his hit points faster than you can wear them down. You'll also have to worry about your troops routing before they finish the SC off.

On the bright side, a Pan that can cast Weapons of Sharpness can also cast Petrify. After you research up to Alt 6 (or is it 7?), of course. That ought to be pretty helpful in taking down SCs.

[Kel]

Originally posted by Boron:
so next attempt :
take pangenea or vanheim or ulm . rush to con 7 .

Putting aside the idea of why you would even want to rush to const-7 to make nation specific common troops useful against SCs...
or why you couldn't just use crossbows with wind guide, flaming guide or just a mass of them...
or why if you had a research level of 7 and a 5E mage, why you wouldn't just petrify instead...
are you taking into account common SC items like luck ammys and charc shields ?

-Kel

[Boron]

Originally posted by Kel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boron:
so next attempt :
take pangenea or vanheim or ulm . rush to con 7 .

Putting aside the idea of why you would even want to rush to const-7 to make nation specific common troops useful against SCs...
or why you couldn't just use crossbows with wind guide, flaming guide or just a mass of them...
or why if you had a research level of 7 and a 5E mage, why you wouldn't just petrify instead...
are you taking into account common SC items like luck ammys and charc shields ?

-Kel

---

yeah i take that into account .
afaik weapons of sharpness makes weapons magic too . so etheralness doesn't protect .
that means 50% of the hits fail through luck from luck ammy right ?

afaik the damage shields apply AFTER the attack .
so 90% of the maenads will die through the shield but that damage is after the maenad did damage to the sc right ?

furthermore a minotaur has 27 hp so he will survive 1 damage shield attack right ?

concerning life steal :
the pretender replenishes the same amount than he does as damage right ?
he will most likely have quickness so 2 attacks in his turn .
if you have a charcoil shield you have only a blood thorn or a soul vortex .

i don't fully know the soul vortex still , greame said he thinks it does drain 1 life on a couple of targets in the drain life area .

so without considering life drain if you don't fight a nataraja the sc will have either a charcoil shield + a bloodthorn most likely or a wraithsword but no shield .

he could cast a fire shield instead too .

so hopefully he takes 50-100 damage then with damage shields about 30-40 maenads will be dead .
if the sc has more hp than that , a vq would e.g. be already dead , i think he replenishes with 2 attacks about 20-30 life but perhaps that is too high.
if he hits e.g. 2 1hp maenads who survived the damage shield he only gets 2 hp drained or ?

because 100 maenads are really easy to achieve i think you have 2 combat rounds with full force .
it will be really tough .

@ Vynd petrify is really great too didn't think on that so thnx for the idea

what i liked with weapons of sharpness is that with that the maenads which are completely free should be very useful against common troops like knights too .
with 5:1 ratio maenad : knight the knights should get killed quite quick too .

so if you even research after con 7 alteration 6 for petrify you could script your horde to hold and attack and your mage(s) to weapons of sharpness , petrify , petrify , petrify , petrify , cast spells .

since the maenads are so easy to get you can even guard your mages by 20-30 of them which will kill most small attack Groups thnx to weapons of sharpness too .


so what do you think now ?

you can even make your own scs with pan and cheaply be a danger to most scs after some turns with my described idea .

since you research con 7 you can forge dozens of bags of vine with your nature gems and use harpy scouts for that .
so after a couple of turns in midgame you can supply an army of 500+ maenads with mages .

and you have stealth forces so you can use gandalfs great tactics to weaken enemy economy furthermore