Abysya Help Request.

[Cohen]

I'd like a lot Abysya, default theme.
But I'm not able to play them in a winning manner.

I explain there my problems:

They've expensive HI, 20 gold and about 30 Resources (I know they've superior stats but they're slow, very slow and cumbersome, even if they've a superior strenght they get exausthed soon), and this means that even with Productivity 3 (and you're forced to take Prod 3 unless you don't want to have even less money and to produce almost nothing) you can recruit a few of them/turn. And they're not so superior in taking out Indies, and are common sword fodder for mid-late game ... mmm not very common due to their cost.
Humanbred Militia are useless since they got arrowed and escape even before reaching the enemy.

So I've big expences to buy troops to conquer indies, with a not so successful gain if I compare what can a MI/Xbow Marignon or HI Ulm can do.

Another real problem is the research/blood hunt.
Default Abysya can recruit blood hunters only in Capitol. Abysya can recruit effective researchers only in capitol, since the Anthemats (useful to aid conquering indies, but if you buy them you don't research and/or blood hunt) are very costy for their research income.
Even taking Magic3 you find out-researched when you send a fair amount of Warlock Apprentices to blood hunt. And your researchers aren't sacred (right) so they cost a lot of Unkeep that slow down you more. But Abysya should rely on blood heavily...

Someone told me to use Assassins to take out Indies, but this could work only in maps with chokepoints, and this is a slow way, not very secure, and research penalizing, to take out indies.

Your pretender have to take a good admin castle, to build troops.
You have 120 points from heat scale, but its difficult even with desert sun to have in all provinces Heat 3 (well I have in some games provinces with dominion 8-10 and Heat 1 or 2 ... capitol included in 1 ... and this means 5% or 10% income less!)

The heat aura of the troops isn't a thing you can count on ... rarely I've seen enemy troops set afire by that stuff.
You can't really play on bless effect ... the Lava Warriors are nice, but resource expensive, capitol only, easily arrowable. If you go for battle mages Anthemaths, you can try an earth or air bless ... but usually it doesn't worth the pretender cost.


So on ... who can explain me how to play properly default Abysya.
I've tried many pretenders but all of them not worked very well (I've to retest Virtue however, since in the game I used her even if she killed a Divine Emperor soon she got diseased on turn 6 or 7 around ... crippling her definitively)

[Esben Mose Hansen]

I'm not, by nature, an Abysian player. But I think that Abysia is a blood nation. And that means:

1) Watch Towers in every province that you use for blood hunting
2) Mostly forget about national troops
3) Use sages or similar for research
4) Use summons for troops

But then, I have never really attempted this :-)

[Teraswaerto]

A few thoughts:

Forget about the Warlock Apprentice, recruit Demonbreds instead. They are much better and have lower upkeep.

The main effect of the heat aura is fatigue, not combustion. In hot lands the enemy soldiers often collapse from fatigue long before the Abysians do if the battle Lasts a while. If a non fire resistant SC or Thug is surrounded by Abysians he will go over 100 fatigue in a few combat rounds, even with 0 encumbrance.

Make Lifelong Protections and give them to Slayers. Keep them in Groups and use them mainly for defense, since that way it's easier to position them in the right place at the right time.

Fire evocations are quite good. Put your mages close to the front line so the low precision doesn't matter so much.

[ June 11, 2004, 13:39: Message edited by: Teraswaerto ]

[tinkthank]

Yes, you put your finger on some sore points.
What I try to do to counter this is:
Get a low-cost pretender and spend points on Scales. Get Order 3 as a must-have.
Search. Find gems. You need em. Alchemize your fire early on for gold to buy troops. Be aggressive.
Not finding sages sucks. There is no real solution to this. Thus: be aggressive, expand, and hope to find sages.
I still like Abysia's national troops, they are just not particularly flexible. Gateway is a must-have spell for me since it's easy to cast for us and I want Thaumaturgy anyhow.
Well maybe that helps?

[Cohen]

Demonbred initial cost is 260, while the Warlock Apprentice is only 150 ...

110 gold less

Demonbred Unkeep= 8.66
Warlock Apprentice=10

110 / 1.4 = 74 turns

In 74 turns your Warlock Apprentice will be more costly than the demonbred, adding the starting cost to the unkeep.
Well Demonbred is far more effective for research and battle too, but often it costs more and you need gold for troops.

All those tactics I use already, except the one of the lifelong protection, since I prefer to use in other manner the slaves.

I didn't know heat aura exausthed. I believed that it was cold aura however.

[Teraswaerto]

Both heat and cold auras cause fatigue. Heat also causes combustion and cold numbness.

The Demonbreds are good for many things. They can serve as combat mages, and since they fly traveling to the front lines is quick. They can summon & lead devils. They are the best researchers Abysia has. Though cheaper the Warlock Apprentice is far less useful, and has higher upkeep. IMO, choosing the DB over the WA is a no-brainer.

[tinkthank]

I certainly dont think it's a "no-brainer".
The DB doesnt research that much better (in fact: 1 point), and I usually have at least 1 or 2 magic scales with Abysia; for the money, I find that 3 non-sacred WAs research much better than 2 sacred DBs.

You may like DBs more; and surely they are a fine unit, and I like them as well.
But I doubt that the choice between the DB and the WA (like almost ANY choice in Dom2) is a "no-brainer".

[Teraswaerto]

Originally posted by tinkthank:
.
But I doubt that the choice between the DB and the WA (like almost ANY choice in Dom2) is a "no-brainer".

I'm sure the WA has it's place in some strategies and play styles. I was merely explaining why, in my opinion, one is better off recruiting DBs instead of WAs.

I usually recruit WA's for Blood Duty more than Research Duty (though, they provide that function as well).

Often with Abysia, you are early game pounding with Troops and then at some point (usually turn 15ish) have to do a massive switch to blood to either field an immediate Devil Army (which your 4+ DB's can summon), Ice Devil or begin production of Soul Contracts. You can field quite a few more WA's than DB's when doing this because of the mandatory use of high gold troops that will allow you to win against nearby neighbors. And while mobility is a factor, I find it more important in those situations to have quantity of hunters over a highly mobile fewer.

[ June 11, 2004, 15:51: Message edited by: Zen ]

[Cohen]

Well, I'm probably pretty slower since my blood hunt starts on turn 20 if not 30 ...

The real problem is that I can't keep the pace of enemy research when I turn my guys blood hunting! Even with magic-3 scale.