Suggestion for a new nation

tinkthank · #1 March 21st, 2004, 08:46 AM

Howz about a nation of peoples based loosely on a Persian/Arabic/Byzantinian nation (I know this is totally a-historical) with relations to their bedouin fellows similar to those of Jotun/Vaetti and Van/human? Bedouins generally have good morale but require more money to conscript.

- Prefers Heat +1
- All units have wasteland survival. All bedouins are stealthy, and all have improved stealth in desert provinces.
- Standard units: Arabian Chargers (mounted light cavalry), Desert Swordsmen (poorly armored scimitar wielders, pillage bonus, berserker +0), Arabian Knights (expensive heavy cav), Bedouin Warriors (stealthy light units, similar to Mictlan or Machaka warriors, but with slightly better morale and higher cost), Bedouin Cavalry (stealthy but expensive light cav), Light Spearmen, Infantry
- Sacred Unit: Whirling Dervish: Berserker +2, lightly armored scimitar wielder -- when berserk, will attack entire square (similar to Harvest Blade effect but WITHOUT "never misses" bonus)
- Mages: Astrologer (SS??), Sage (?, improved research), Loremaster (F??, improved research), Bedouin Visionary (FAS? Priest 2)
- Commanders I: Vizier (Priest 2, stealthy, spy), Arch Vizier (Priest 3, stealthy)
- Commanders II: Mounted Arabian Knight, Clan Leader (Swordsman with decent leadership and pillage bonus), Bedouin Leader (Stealthy, decent command)
- Special Scout: a special desert assassin, a bedouin Reader of the Sand, who, when in deserts, gets improved information and will actually get information on where enemy armies have headed and where they are going to. This commander gets the special command "Track Enemy"; when activated, it will automatically follow (move to the appropriate province) a random enemy commander who is in or who enters that province.
- Anyone care to see a Courtesan? This would be a stealthy 0-leadership commander with the "seduce commander" action; however, she is no powerfully armed succubus, but rather simply a (very inticing) lightly clad woman armed only with a poison dagger, so if the seduction fails and battle ensues, she can probably only succeed in surviving a battle with a cheapo priest
- Special National Summons: Sacred Unit: Djinn Warrior: etheral moustached swordwielder, can go berserk +0, Lesser Fear, requires FA, cost 5 fire.

Well I dont know if this is generally balanced, I originally pictured them with some Earth magic too but that seemed overpowered. Of course more care would have to be given to the exact weapons, armor, and pricing.
Well does anybody else like the idea? I have these visions in my head of swirling sands, dark moustached faces, knives glinting in the moonlight, proud chieftains, wise men staring at the stars, hunched figures reading signs in the dunes, Ottomanian infantry, and seductive beautiful women. Oh sorry getting carried away, just got back from a conference on the Kurdish revivalist Said Nursi and have been reading "1001 Nights".

Wondering: Must a new modded nation actually *replace* an existing nation (instead of: being an addition to it)? That is, could a nation such as this or Ashikaga be *in addition* to, say, Machaka or Tien Chi?

Endoperez · #2 March 21st, 2004, 08:56 AM

If theme modding ever comes available, you might be able to add this *** a theme, otherways I don't believe it is or never will be possible to add nations.

Zurai · #3 March 21st, 2004, 09:20 AM

You can replace nations but currently you cannot add to them. I don't know if that will ever be possible since it would require UI work and the devs have said they're not too fond of UI work.

tinkthank · #4 March 21st, 2004, 10:14 AM

OK thanks.

Um... so what do you think of the theme?

Wauthan · #5 March 21st, 2004, 01:05 PM

It would be a good variation for Machaka methinks. Raise the heatscale to +2, since this reflects the desert heat.

I'm not sure the whirling dervish is a good choice for sacred unit. Wrong culture perhaps? But then again I know so very little about arabian myths and legends.

Same thing with Viziers. Weren't they part of the caliphate administration? Perhaps just a name change is all that is needed?

I don't think a Reader of the Sands ability would be possible in Dominions 2. But as a plain cheap assassin in would be great.

Courtesan sounds a bit... Errh... Hard on the suspension of disbelief? Surely it takes more than a pretty face to turn highranking commanders against their former allies? Then again it might be my annoyance for the "seduce" ability talking. I liked it even less in Age of Wonders. Perhaps give this unit both spying and assassination abilities instead?

Just one summoned unit?

There a tons of cool mythical creatures to be found in this setting.

The nation seems to be a cross between Pangea and Machaka. It should work very well, since the concept is well balanced. A suprising lack of archers though.

Sandman · #6 March 21st, 2004, 03:15 PM

A Middle Eastern style nation would be good. However, I'd shy away from using real-world terms like 'Arabian cavalry' or 'Bedouin Warriors'. It'd be like Man having Welsh longbowmen, or Marginon having a Spanish inquisition.

I'm not sure stealthyness is such a good idea from a thematic POV. The other stealthy nations have magical help, how are a bunch of ordinary humans able to be stealthy? I suppose the stealth is there to represent the impressive mobility of medieval Arabic armies, although I'd represent that by making them a cavalry heavy nation, with diverse all-cav armies a decent possibility. And I'd give their mages a built-in flying carpet for even greater mobility.

Really good assassins are a must for this nation as well, although I don't really see courtesans as thematic, not to mention the silliness of her seducing minotaurs, C'tissians, Abysians, amazons and eunuchs.

Heat +1 seems fine to me. IMO, Machaka should have heat +1 as well, just because there is such a difference between living in a hot land, and living in a volcano.

I'd go for fire and air as their national magics. It's not 'taken' and it fits the nation quite nicely. And you've got efreet (fire) and djinn (air) in the mythology already.

Endoperez · #7 March 21st, 2004, 04:30 PM

Magic carpets are wonderful flavour. As is Djinn. Unfortunately, there already is a Djinn in the game: check the Lamp. Of course, the Lamp is Unique. IIRC right the Djinn has power in Air, Fire and Astral. You could always mod him too to rename him as as something else...

I think some kind of mystical seducer could be a heroine for this nation. If you want to give her some special ability, Flying and Awe seem thematic.
BTW, she wouldn't be able to seduce C'tissians, amazons or eunuchs, because Succubus can't either. I'm not sure about minotaurs or abysians, though...

fahdiz · #8 March 21st, 2004, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wauthan:
I'm not sure the whirling dervish is a good choice for sacred unit. Wrong culture perhaps? But then again I know so very little about arabian myths and legends.

Dervishes would be sacred, as they were mystical Sufi dancers. It was considered the pinnacle of holiness at the time, if I recall correctly, to be a great Sufi dancer.

Djinni and Ifreeti would also be sacred in such a culture, by the way. They made sacrifices to the Djinni/Ifreeti similarly to the way the Japanese sacrificed to local spirits for safe travel, good weather, etc.

Quote:

Just one summoned unit? There a tons of cool mythical creatures to be found in this setting.

I agree. If anything, this should be a rather summon-heavy theme in my opinion, with summons backing up the disproportionately large amount of cavalry.

I also agree with Sandman's suggestion about Fire and Air being the main magic paths for such a nation.

Graeme Dice · #9 March 21st, 2004, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandman:
Really good assassins are a must for this nation as well, although I don't really see courtesans as thematic, not to mention the silliness of her seducing minotaurs, C'tissians, Abysians, amazons and eunuchs.

She'd have trouble seducing minotaurs, since they are size 3, and Eunuchs can never be seduced.

st.patrik · #10 March 22nd, 2004, 04:03 AM

tinkthank - I like the idea. A vaguely Arabian nation would be a lot of fun, and there's a ton of stuff to draw from.

I love the idea of dervishes, and of lots of summons. I think the main troops should be horse or camel riders (or both) with light armour, but high defense and high attack rating. I like the idea of stealthy troops - since they aren't big on heavy armours they can move around more quietly and blend in more easily.

Sounds very cool.